Where are we going?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by EruptionTyphlosion, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. Ytrewq

    Ytrewq
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,273

    BeamNG - not giving a damn about screwed up AI since 0.12
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. fivedollarlamp

    fivedollarlamp
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2016
    Messages:
    2,693
    Why are people acting like this is a AAA game with AAA developers? let's face it, you're not going to get smooth development from a small team of people scattered across the globe. This is fact. If you don't like the way development is going, you don't have to rant about it... These people are working as hard as they can- and you shouldn't be throwing a fit and writing walls of text because you don't like how the game is being developed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 14
  3. Danny Werewolf

    Danny Werewolf
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2017
    Messages:
    2,193
    One issue; people are comparing this game to other vehicle games because it has automobiles. Like @ManfredE3 said, the way the game is working, it makes more sense to compare it to Minecraft development wise.

    Anyway, so glad Nadeox could finally give light on a lot of this. Wonder if this will be a new thread for developer updates/AMA-like ideas. It has the perfect name.

    Again......HOW HAS THIS THREAD NOT DEVOLVED INTO A FLAMEWAR, THIS ISN'T THE FORUM I KNOW!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    What kind of response from developers would make you think that they do care?
     
  5. vmlinuz

    vmlinuz
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2014
    Messages:
    1,743
    Excellent. But I must know: is there a fix in the works for this lighting LOD fuckery? It's triggering my OCD.
     
  6. Glitchy

    Glitchy
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    831
    Now this is what I wanted to see, thanks for finally responding! I have very high hopes for this game, and I'm a bit more motivated to play this game now! Thank you!
     
  7. Capkirk

    Capkirk
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2017
    Messages:
    677
    I've never seen those issues before. AI has always been a neat and clean driver for me, if not a little derpy. Could it be related to the fact you're playing a slideshow, or is that just the recording software?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Out of curiosity I did set out to test, it seems AI is pretty equal to my driving level :D



    But there is an issue if AI car is ahead and you are close to it, then choose chase, AI gets confused instead of turning around, at the end AI indeed acts like being self destructive, you have to have car close to AI car and AI car must be ahead of your car:
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Ytrewq

    Ytrewq
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,273
    Fixing this bug, even if it means reverting the AI back to 0.11 state. I didn't notice any changes anyway - except destroyed chase mode that is impossible to use in demo derbies. Or at least saying that they are working on it, or even confessing that they are unable to fix it right now. While all response I got are ratings and one nonsense reply ("something like this is simply not implemented - Diamondback).
    If it's in any way related to my post about AI...I want to tell you something. I would be perfectly fine without smooth development - but what happened with the AI is not even development. It's straightforward degradation, and I find it hard to tolerate.
    No, it's always like that. Just tested.
    Yes, that's the problem, AI refuses to hit you with its rear end.
     
  10. Danny Werewolf

    Danny Werewolf
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2017
    Messages:
    2,193
    Check "Trajectory" in the debug takedown in the AI App. I often find the pathing and the way it's pathed to be really confusing. I think the ai also has issues driving lengthy cars (Like the Dansworth school bus)

    Then again, I don't know anything.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  11. roland91

    roland91
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    120
    Just reading what everyone's thinking, and can't really agree.

    Main complaints seem to be lack of content, the missing career, infrequent updates and the AI.

    Lack of content updates seem obvious: the more you produce early on the more you'll have to redo later. Therefore content as in vehicles and props would need to come as late as possible? Specially with a small(ish) team, to be able to work on the underlaying basic game first.

    The same goes for the career, although getting a barely playable career would be nice for some, others could get annoyed and even angered if the barely playable early career gets fully ditched later. It is good to know that the devs have had some career concepts roghly in the game by now though:D

    The long time between updates is a good thing for a small dev team in my mind at least. I mean, getting an update every other month seems insane:

    An update is rushed out due to the 2 month deadline, then a lot of bugs get reported and for the next month the whole team is trying to rescue the last update with extensive patching. And then devs notice the calendar and see that it is almost time to push the next update out but the last update just got patched so no real development has been going on. So then it's time to do even more extra hour work to have something to present in the coming update, which makes that one rushed and therefore even buggier than the last one...

    The AI is something I personally have been worrying about ever since I started to mess with it. BeamNG devs seem to want to have non-cheating AI, but I am seriously concerned that it may be too much for the devs... There have been some promising posts, but it all seems overwhelming to be honest. I mean, if it gets done, I will be amazed:D Just don't overwork - and unfortunately it seems to be an issue with the BeamNG GmBH, if rumors are true. I have spent a year of working 14hours a day, 7 days a week, including a bunch of holidays and all that for not much pay. And I hate myself a bit for doing that - regeret is real. So hopefully everything is going good for the devs wellbeing.

    But overall I am very happy with .Drive. It is my favourite game easily, even in current state. I have played Beam a lot more than Wreckfest, and will continue that way since for some reason I am not fully satisfied with the damage in Wreckfest, I don't know why....

    Also the performance issues: I really don't have any, and I use a bloody cheapish laptop... Specifically the West coast USA map, for me it is actually one of the better ones, feels very optimized for me. Unfortunately the East coast USA seems to suffer a bit for me, unfortunate since it is my favorite of all the maps. And since I have Beam installed on SSD and have the habit of pausing the physics to use menus, Beam is the quickest game to play:D Important when you have only 30-40 minutes of free time to play something, can't really spend much time staring a loading screen(like in Forza or Farming simulator, or even Automation- I must have my Automation install broken or something, it loads for a very long time).

    And since Giants got mentioned: Their Farming Simulator series(which I am a fan of) feels like a bit of a cashgrab to me:D Just some simple looking updates every two years and have to pay some more cash to get the latest version of what feels like the same game as always:D Thankfully they haven't really overpriced it yet:D In Beam atleast the devs dont just cut off development and say: Here's the .Drive1.0, We'll report back after two years and if you want some new features, a new map and a few vehicles, you'll have to pay another 35 USD/Eur.:D

    I have a lot of faith in Beam devs, everything they have done and wrote about so far seems to match with my personal vision of an ideal driving game. Keep up the amaizing work:D
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. Diamondback

    Diamondback
    Expand Collapse
    Vehicle Systems Engineering
    BeamNG Team

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,668
    Btw, those complaining about the AI: You might not be aware of how complicated this topic actually is. It's literally in the same ballpark as creating logic for a selfdriving car IRL. So the stuff companies like BMW, Audi, etc have entire divisions of people for (and still fail pretty badly atm ;) )

    You might wonder why other games have much better AIs? That's because their technical requirements are much smaller, they usually don't actually drive the AI car like a real person would (ie using throttle, brake, steering).
    Our AI however, does exactly that, it literally tries to simulate a human being driving the car. (Please let me know if you have data on any other game doing this, I don't think there is any tbh)
    So when you are saying that the AI sucks you might as well blame us for not being able to create something better than real car companies :p
     
    • Like Like x 16
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Informative Informative x 3
  13. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    I think you are incorrect, FS is HUGE cashgrab, also that trucking sim company does the same, only prettiness changes, some minor new features and that is a new game, well they did move to DLC skins maps etc and if you want to play cool mod, buy ALL DLC maps.

    BeamNG devs are really generous, sometimes I worry that they are giving too much for too cheap, they put huge amount of work in and you get that under 30 euros, ton of new content with updates too.

    Something like Raceroom, each vehicle costs money, several euros, rFactor2 has such too, but also I think some map was 20 euros or more, that is one race track where you drive only at pits and on race track itself. iRacing did cost monthly and then you still needed to pay for cars and tracks I think. 100 euros for sim content and software is easily spent. It has gone quite expensive hobby.

    ETS2 is something like 60 euros or more to be able to play all mods and their new DLC map is soon come which will increase the cost?

    Of course with BeamNG computer hardware needs to be really beefy, quite close to top of the line from 4th gen intel or newer.

    Anyway I don't really have complains about how BeamNG is, I just think it is really a bargain in today's world.

    I think many would be interested about article of how exactly AI in BeamNG operates.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Aboroath

    Aboroath
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Messages:
    3,800
    Uhm, no thanks. I'll keep my detailed and passionate "rants" coming. You can choose to read and understand them or not.

    Cheers
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Kueso

    Kueso
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,002
    Good grief
    I stop monitoring this thread for like 2 days and all of this happened
    Im honestly just glad this game exists.
    It give me something to do when i have nothing better to do.
    Some of you people are just complaining to complain. especially about the AI
    the AI is an idiot sometimes, sure, but there are work-arounds. Like using dev maps. They tend to have the best AI mapping, and even then, its not perfect.
    This game was made by humans. living, breathing people who dont have all day to devote to this, probably have a family, and things to do.
    BeamNG definitely has a good future, with the devotion the devs have shown, and causing all this doesnt really help them out much.

    And then there are certain people (You know who you are) who actually are trying to reason with people, and bring good points to the table that just get pushed aside by the rest of the non-contributing/ off topic rants.

    This game is great for what it is, and im glad it hasnt died yet, and i dont think it will soon.
    Keep in mind: ROR and Beam are pioneers in this genre. Name me one other game that does deformation as well if not better than these 2.

    Thanks for reading, and please correct me if I am wrong in any of my statements.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  16. Snikle

    Snikle
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2016
    Messages:
    256
    Wreckfest is really the only thing that comes close. It's deformation is good, but still not as good as Beam's though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Kueso

    Kueso
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,002
    yeah, but Wreckfest's physics are completely inferior to beams, and even ROR.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  18. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Interestingly enough, some time ago I stumbled upon this, so there is a competition emerging, however what I see does not look like to be quite near the level of as good or better:
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/488550/Dream_Car_Builder/

    That game does have few really nice ideas, but it is not really able to compete, at least not yet, but something to keep on eye like any potential competition.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Kueso

    Kueso
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2016
    Messages:
    4,002
    hmm
    Its very interesting, but their graphics are meh and simulation is good, but not near Beams just yet.
     
  20. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    6,676
    Especially driving physics, tires etc. are not even near, but it seems BeamNG is no longer alone with soft body physics, there are other attempts now too which is interesting then to see will there be more and what that will mean in a future. Keen eye of course spies all that so nothing can surprise suddenly :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice