Update Speculation thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by crazikyle, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    Permadeath results in an age rating? So Minecraft is 18+ now?

    While I'm at it, I never understood the crash test dummy thing. It would be a great educational tool. Games like Skate It III got a "teen" rating while having a fairly graphic representation of bodily harm, so a simply g-force/dummy thing shouldn't be a problem.
     
    #19321 ManfredE3, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  2. MarkosRuiz

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    Honestly I didn't read all the commens before this one, I saw that you are mentioning cold starts and that stuff...

    People like me love to watch how the engine performs (temperatures) but it is boring to see that it stays at 90C all the time and how frkn long it takes for it to heat. Real thermostats have a operating range such as 90C-100C (starts opening - fully open) I don't think it would be too difficult to change?

    To archieve a high mileage diesel in beam you have to adjust burn efficiency so it uses less fuel, but it also reduces the heat of the engine, so it takes a lot of time for it to heat up, specially when driving slow, it barely heats up... IRL the engines need to heat up as fast as they can so they consume less fuel. I think there should be separated options, a burn efficiency one and a heat transfer / heat acumulation or something like that.

    Also, the majority of turbos are oil cooled only, but in Beam the only temp that the turbo affects is the coolant... In high powered diesels the turbo heats up quite fast as I have experienced IRL. And also I think that the oil tempetature drops too fast when stopped.

    An addition to this, the catalyc converters usually start operating properly above 300C, same as the oxygen sensors or lambda, in beam with a diesel engine driving slow you see the manifold temperature barely hitting 250C, when IRL should be like at 400? 500? They even hit 600C when the particle filter starts the regeneration phase.

    I'm not an engineer, either a mechanic, but my experience and logic makes me think that. Hope you understand me properly!
     
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  3. Copunit12

    Copunit12
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    I wonder if the t-series will get an a adjustable 5th wheel and more wheel configurations for the Randolph trailers along with adjustable ones.
     
  4. default0.0player

    default0.0player
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    Because of the way the thermal simulation is.
    thermostat.png
    --- Post updated ---
    I made a tutorial, hope it works.
     
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  5. MrAnnoyingDude

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    Maybe it could, maybe it couldn't.

    My point is that if it turns out it could, and it doesn't in some case, then shit would hit the fan for BMW.
    Just look at the Pinto case - the car was about as safe as the competitors, but the mass media focused on the rear impacts.
     
  6. Flippi 284

    Flippi 284
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    Never said I had anything against car safety. I think a majority of them do their job fine and under normal circumstances you probably shouldn’t notice it unless it’s one of those things that constantly bugs you. However for career mode and just overall realism having those systems and making them behave like they do real life would be good and would probably motivate people to try keep their car from crashing in beam (or just pick a different car depending on the circumstances) due to all the side effects of said systems or anything else related to the car and repair process. As for stuff like old carbureted cars and diesels taking multiple tries to start in colder temperatures and would also be a nice touch to the game but I think devs said somewhere that they were likely not going to do any more features involving temperature. But then again none of this (except maybe the disabling explosive charge) is likely to come into the game in the first place.
     
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  7. NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck

    NGAP NSO Shotgun Chuck
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    Oh frick, does that mean no tire, gearbox, or differential thermals?

    I feel betrayed.
     
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  8. MarkosRuiz

    MarkosRuiz
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    Hope the devs could take this base and work they way to add it to default vehicles, and will be nice to see variation in the different cars / engines. :)
     
  9. ManfredE3

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    We not talking about deleting a major saftey system here, just using a cheaper kill switch. I don't see how "shit would hit the fan" if BMW used a standard kill switch instead of an explosive bolt.

    Multiple of y'all are acting like it's either an explosive bolt or 1970's saftey tech with no inbetweens. The difference in saftey between a typical on/off switch and an explosive charge is no where near the difference between a pinto and any modern car.

    Again, I'm not trying to say anything about the system itself, just the fact that when someone questioned the use of one method vs another, multiple users responded with "you must not want any saftey features at all"
     
    #19329 ManfredE3, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  10. Flippi 284

    Flippi 284
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    In terms of temperature I think they were talking about things like how different parts of the car behave in extremely hot or cold temperatures. I think they already have a few basic mechanics for it but don’t think they’re gonna add too much more in the near future.
     
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  11. FLyInG 2 YoUr SoUL

    FLyInG 2 YoUr SoUL
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    What he's trying to say is that the explosive charge gets the job done more reliably than a standard kill switch, so BMW opted for a potentially safer solution at the expenses of repairability. If the intent was entirely benign is not us to say.

    Volvo had pedestrian airbags in the hood of certain models. Once deployed, the single-use explosive-triggered jacks tilting the hood upward to better absorb the impact would get jammed in the "open" position. Plus, the whole inflatable device would require (costly) replacement.



    Same thing: in case of collisions involving pedestrians, pop-up bonnet + airbag gets the job done with potentially better results than just impact-absorption zones in the hood, and these accidents are a lot less likely to total a vehicle than crashes triggering the explosive charges in BMWs, but still very expensive to repair.
     
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  12. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    My issue is not with the device itself, just the fact that when multiple users questioned the device, multiple other users jumped straight to "you must not want any saftey features". That's a huge jump. Just because people question the benefit of one system against another does not mean they want 1970's saftey features.

    OT:
    I've been thinking about difficulty settings as it relates to all of this, I think an interesting system would be:
    Easy: repairs are free
    Normal: repairs are a reasonable cost
    Hard: exotic cars (ex: Civetta Bolide) and modern cars must be taken to an expensive specialist/dealer for repairs if possible.
    Hard+: Add permadeath (again, Minecraft has permadeath. That alone is not enough to bump up a rating)
     
  13. SuperAusten64

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    All hail Shotgun Chuck, automotive Jesus. He alone gets to dictate what constitutes "car culture." He stands above all others, in that if you do not agree with every single one of his opinions, then you are not a true member of car culture. If you have the audacity to own a vehicle made after 1995, then you are nothing more than a filthy peasant, a plebian, a normie. If you own or even like a car that isn't powered by internal combustion, then you are, as FDR put it, "a wedge designed to attack our civilization," and are physically attacking the people who "actually want to protect and grow car culture."

    Did you seriously just say that people should be discouraged from picking newer cars in a video game? Is your vocabulary actually devoid of the words "opinion" and "subjective?" I want you to look me (or at least the semi-intoxicated David Byrne that is my profile picture) in the eyes and tell me that you think a driving game should not be fun. That you want the devs to effectively nerf a good portion of this game's content simply because you don't like their real-life counterparts' lack of serviceability. That every single part of the game has to be precisely realistic (say goodbye to Gridmap, the ability to start engines pre-heated, slow motion, gravity settings, and the ability to go anywhere in WCA without getting gridlocked, to name a few). That no one should be able to enjoy this game for reasons other than yours.

    "Car culture" is far more than this single subcategory you seem to get off on. Car culture is, simply put, any and all things associated with cars. Tesla fanboys are a part of car culture. JDM fanboys are a part of car culture. Self-driving cars are an up-and-coming part as well. Just because you like them doesn't mean they aren't there. It's a lot like how 9-year-olds who play Fortnite and 40-somethings who still play Commander Keen on DOS are both parts of "gamer culture" (a phrase even more stupid than "car culture," but that's what people seem to call it), and even how boomers who grew up on a farm in Texas and millennials with a liberal arts degree in New York are both Americans. The part of car culture that you like, which seems to be 1960s-1980s American muscle cars, is not going anywhere, because there's plenty of room for everyone to enjoy what they like.

    Either you're this forum's biggest troll, or your opinions cloud your judgement to the point where anyone enjoying something car-related that you don't like is downright sacrilegious to you.

     
    #19333 SuperAusten64, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  14. fivedollarlamp

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    this is beautiful
     
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  15. MrAnnoyingDude

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    To be fair, I don't have anything against having those features in a game as realistic as Beam.

    However, their impact on gameplay has nothing to do with real life - how often do you drive a modern supercar around an enduro course, or try to make an economy sedan do stoppies?
     
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  16. SuperAusten64

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    That's what I'm trying to say. Complaining that a modern car being able to drive after a big crash is unrealistic is irrelevant, because BeamNG is not 100% accurate to real life, and (I believe) it was never intended to be. It is, after all, a video game.
     
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  17. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    Beam competes in the sim market and has a planned career mode with economy and vehicle modification/repair system. All types of vehicles have pros and cons, some are better suited for some things than others. One of those cons is difficulty to repair and modify certain types of cars like the Bolide and 800-Series; leaving this out would be a big omission in career mode and take away part of the intricacy of using such a car for racing events.

    Obviously this isn't a "daily driver" sim and unless we get simulated heated seats I wouldn't use beam to decide what car I'll be buying IRL, but as for considering what should and should not be included in game it makes sense to include those difficulties.
     
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  18. MrAnnoyingDude

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    Exactly this. You can't just crash a modern luxury car and have it brought back to shape by a shadetree panel beater.
     
  19. ARES IV

    ARES IV
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    There is maybe a misconception about what temperatures to expect in a modern production car that isnt defective.

    The point of the thermostat(s) is to keep the engine at the idea operating temperature. When the engine is cold, connection to the radiator is shut off so that the engine can heat up quicker to operating temperatures. When coolant temperature of this "inner" circulation reaches a certain treshold... the themostats begings to open, allowing not only a larger volume of coolant to circulate but also circulating it through the radiator.

    Only when the thermostat is fully open (and all coolant is going through the radiator) and the radiator cannot remove the excess heat... only then your coolant temperature does rise. If you have the engine temperature debug app active you will see that the thermostats opens more and more until it reaches 1.0 = 100 % = fully open. The value then becomes yellow as this means that the current engine cooling capactiy has been reached. If temperature raises further, cooling fans become active and try to bring temperature down again.

    The engine coolant temperature staying at arround 90 degrees is not boring. It is precisly what should happen and is precisly what happens in real life. My Focus heats up.... but then stays at 85 degree C under most driving conditions.

    Since the entire point of having a fluid based cooling system is to keep the engine at operating temperatures it also makes sense that oil and cylinder wall temperatures does not run away. BeamNG realistically simulates older cars having more issues than more modern ones..... a testament of decades of cooling development.


    Not quite sure what you want to say with your high burn efficiency diesel?

    Diesel engines being more efficient means that they create LESS waste heat..... meaning that they require MORE time to heat up.... a fact amplified by heavier overall construction.

    Modern car diesels may reach as low as only 250 degree C of exhaust temperature when at idle. At the same time they rarely go above 600 degree C even when under maximum load.

    Meanwhile... an idle naturally aspirated gasoline engine reaches arround 600 degrees C. Under load... even a naturally aspirated gasoline engine scrapes at the 1000 degree C number. For charged engines... this value can be even higher. This is a problem for the catalytic converter because the cat cannot withstand such temperatures. It would melt.

    Since emission control demands a fast heating catalytic converters, most catalytic converters sit close to the engine. While this helps to make the converter work after just a few kilometers of inner city driving... it has the major issue that highway driving (or any other sustained high load) will overheat the catalytic converter, destroying it.

    The solution for most production cars is simple the enrich the mixture.... this causes a lower exhaust temperature at the costs of increased emissions and significantly increased fuel consumption.


    This is the primary reasons why small engines in general and turbocharged engines begin to drink fuel like mad once past a certain load point. It is not only power output... it is emergency cooling of exhaust temperature to avoid the catalytic converter dying at the first high speed highway trip.

    It is also the reasons why Fords 1.0 Litre Ecoboost is so surprisingly fuel efficient even in real life conditions. It water and oil cooled turbo assembly allows for - very hot - efficient lean burn even at highway speeds. Having the exhaust gases cooled like that also means that you dont need to enrich the mixture that much or even at all.

    Hence this small engine doesnt become half as much as a fuel hog as other turbo engines. No need to artificially cool down the exhaust gases by using high quality expensive fuel.... smart construction solves those issues.



    You are right about exhaust manifold temperatures being surprisingly low in BeamNG. For diesel under low load... 250 degree C sound fine but to my knowledge gasoline engines with screaming turbos should by far exceed the 350 - 400 something degree C we see in game. Turbochargers temperature seems more realistic.
     
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  20. MarkosRuiz

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    1. They require more time to heat up, but the manufacter does its best for the engine to heat up as fast as they can and store that heat because sometimes people do short trips.

    2. Particle filters need a exhaust temperature of +600C in order to regenerate themselves properly, it's sometimes reached when doing hard-driving or in highway, that's called passive regeneration. Then there's the active regeneration: in order to reach 600C the engines does post-injections so the exhaust temperature is raised and the particle filter can regenerate and don't start clogging.
    Catalyc converters and oxygen sensors have a minimum operating temperature of +300C, so they minimum have to produce 300C at the manifold.

    I also think that the turbo temperature should be the manifold temperature, it has more realistic values. For sure it is a way to mod that.
    --- Post updated ---
    Technically, yes it is boring because in my E36 325i I have installed a 80C thermostat but more or less the idle temperature is 85C, why? because the thermostat at 81C is barely opening and there is insufficient air to mantain it at 80C.
    It starts opening at 80C and fully opens at 95C, in Beam if I set the thermostat temperature to 80C, it starts opening at 80C and it fully opens at 81C.
     
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