alright definitely, thanks for your help , the C pillars did have an issue right where I put those m15 or m16 nodes whatever it is i forgot. I'll make them into one. Everything sounds good, I saw nodes on the pickup lower than the rear wheel well but i think thats a different situation because of the frame design I wasn't sure how closely i needed to follow the body lines of the car, I was going to add more for the rear to fix that. I'll work on it all today before I worry about suspension. Thank you ! always have been Thanks, and actually its not forza model anymore, its another one but no difference anyways. I tried to stay light on the nodes and looked at the fullsize (crown vic looking car)gabe made and how he laid out the nodes.