HELP DOCTOR, my models have dark spots!

Discussion in 'Content Creation' started by bob.blunderton, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Eeek! Egad! and all the like.
    My models have alas come out with dark spots.

    I don't know what the heck got into Maya LT but it sure made them look like trash!
    Anything I can do to fix this? It's something with the normals or something. It's not the texture because on some things it's fine. I can use it on a mesh road and it's just fine.
    This is a highway kit that I made, so I'd like to use it without looking trashy.
    I have a lot of models that ended up like this, and I am yet to figure out why.
    Let me know guys, sooner the better.
    --Cheers!
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. VeyronEB

    VeyronEB
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    That is very weird, only thing that came to mind to me is texture issues but as you said its not that so only other thing I can think of is geometry issues.

    Would you be able to attach a .dae for one of the pieces that has the problem? That will help a lot when looking into it.
     
  3. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    I attached the texture and the DAE. Just put the texture for the bridge surface (CRS texture) in if you check it in game so that the mapto field matches the name of it in materials.cs, and it should come up.
    Concrete plain d gets mapped to concrete_plain (just take the _d off). That's used on the bottom and sides/walls.

    DO NOT FIX IT. It's far from the only one, there's like two dozen or more like this, maybe three-four dozen or so. Just let me know in Maya (or just generalized term-wise), what I need to do to adjust and fix this mess the Maya created for me, and what does it. I think it's normals in the model itself, but I didn't set it any different.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. VeyronEB

    VeyronEB
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    So, I loaded it into BeamNG (used a WCA concrete material and just changed the mapto and texture names) and it seems to be working just fine for me. So at this point I think it may be a material problem. It definitely rules out geometry at least as the mesh is perfectly fine.



    On top of that it also seems like there may be something wrong with the .dae export settings or something along those lines, neither Blender nor Substance Painter would import them at all, throwing all sorts of errors, which I've never seen happen before.
     
  5. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Alright, I'll delete the specular and normals for the texture and give it a whirl. It just seems odd it'd only affect SOME models and not others. I need to find a map-wide specular settings, something's way overboard with it if that's the case.

    EDIT: NOPE, it's not the material. It's the model. Something's broken with the model.
    Will put the city map project on the back burner until someone can figure this out because I sure can't.
    I've completely removed the normal.
    I've completely removed the specular. Even the specular power is 0.
    It's something baked into the model and I am going to be scrapping the project until this can be figured out. The folks over at Autodesk haven't a clue. I will just go back to playing games and not making them, for now.
    When someone can figure this out, give me a shout so I can pull this project out and continue moving forward. For now I will shelf it because I refuse to put work into something that would be 'wasted'.
    This had happened once before on a single piece, remaking it from scratch solved the problem, but it was only 2 hours of work then, this is a full day or more for this 'set' of on/off ramps, and I still haven't the foggiest why in god's name it's doing this.
    Sorry, don't take it personally, just a bit steamed about it, that's all. I tried my damnedest and it's still rubbish.

    Alls I know is if anyone knows; let me know before Thursday-Friday time otherwise I am cancelling my Maya subscription and shelving this (not going to waste my fixed income on this if it's not going to come out right).

    --That's all for now.
     
    #5 bob.blunderton, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. Nadeox1

    Nadeox1
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    I cannot even manage to import that model in Blender, nothing happens / appears.

    First thing I'm thinking about is the mesh smoothing and edge splits (especially since it happens without textures too)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    That looks exactly like what I got with my offroad fuel tank, now issue with that was specular and normal maps, which I got rid of and it worked without them just fine.

    I have attempted, but always failed with specular map creation, it give all sorts of weird shading issues, exactly like what I see in first screenshot, so try without it and see if it still does crazy stuff, if it does, then that is going to be specular map and settings that needs attention.

    Could be also something weird in materials.cs, but I really haven't got my head around that specular stuff.

    Update: I see material called Phong1 in dae, do you have such in Maya, do you need it? Best to get rid of if not needed.

    Also in DAE I spy there are like million of these:
    <texture texture="Concrete_plain_d-image" texcoord="CHANNEL0">
    <extra>
    <technique profile="MAYA">
    <wrapU sid="wrapU0">TRUE</wrapU>
    <wrapV sid="wrapV0">TRUE</wrapV>
    <blend_mode>NONE</blend_mode>
    </technique>
    </extra>
    </texture>

    There is nothing else in them, why there needs to be so many as there are nothing that could separate them or bind them to different part, vertex etc? Then again I don't understand much about DAE, however somehow that DAE looks different.

    Like this kind of stuff is missing which would actually tell some coordinates and information, you have checkboxes all correctly checked when exporting, what kind of checkboxes there are?:
    Code:
    <source id="geom-semi_roofsignal_R-normals">
              <float_array id="geom-semi_roofsignal_R-normals-array" count="132">0.9665291 -0.007478289 0.2564477 0.9790101 -0.02499642 0.2022728 1 0 0 0 -0.1586913 0.9873282 0 -0.1586913 0.9873283 0 -0.02706959 0.9996336 0 -0.02706959 0.9996336 -8.26234e-7 -0.9174147 0.3979325 0 -0.9174155 0.3979308 -1.92658e-6 -0.8128847 0.5824246 6.54914e-6 -0.8128874 0.582421 0.6285158 -0.02144322 0.7775013 0.692643 -0.1116096 0.7125931 -0.9751192 -0.2022517 0.09075569 -0.6701553 -0.6801074 0.2972303 -0.7148854 -0.5672139 0.4089098 -0.9821639 -0.1525134 0.1099703 -0.9789888 -0.02357531 0.2025466 -0.6920465 -0.1091805 0.7135484 -0.6282312 -0.02308781 0.777684 -0.9662467 -0.008636693 0.2574738 0.165305 -0.02669718 0.9858811 0.187361 -0.1618629 0.9688635 -0.1909723 -0.9005302 0.3906084 -0.2079202 -0.7942359 0.5709279 -0.1865779 -0.1607223 0.9692044 -0.1657071 -0.02736781 0.9857951 -7.24455e-7 -0.4917944 0.8707113 2.5312e-6 -0.4917954 0.8707108 0.2030025 -0.4856179 0.8502737 0.7058336 -0.3417762 0.6204739 -0.202195 -0.4861906 0.8501387 -0.7061397 -0.3428939 0.6195084 0.9801998 -0.08761135 0.1775745 -0.9805126 -0.08804458 0.1756227 0.6693775 -0.6800304 0.2991527 0.9749995 -0.2025227 0.09143491 0.9821061 -0.1527868 0.1101064 0.7146609 -0.567732 0.408583 0.1916186 -0.8999891 0.3915379 0.2084546 -0.7943693 0.570547 -0.9999999 0 0 1 0 0 -1 0 0</float_array>
              <technique_common>
                <accessor source="#geom-semi_roofsignal_R-normals-array" count="44" stride="3">
                  <param name="X" type="float"/>
                  <param name="Y" type="float"/>
                  <param name="Z" type="float"/>
                </accessor>
              </technique_common>
            </source>
    
    Or this kind:
    Code:
    <triangles material="semi_frame" count="628">
              <input semantic="VERTEX" source="#geom-semi_sidestep_L-vertices" offset="0"/>
              <input semantic="NORMAL" source="#geom-semi_sidestep_L-normals" offset="1"/>
              <input semantic="COLOR" source="#geom-semi_sidestep_L-map0" offset="2" set="0"/>
              <input semantic="TEXCOORD" source="#geom-semi_sidestep_L-map1" offset="3" set="0"/>
              <p>30 0 30 3 33 1 33 0 34 2 34 1 34 2 34 1 29 3 29 2 30 0 30 3 82 4 82 7 70 5 70 4 69 6 69 5 69 6 69 5 81 7 81 6 82 4 82 7 78 8 78 11 38 9 38 8 37 10 37 9 37 10 37 9 77 11 77 10 78 8 78 11 62 12 62 15 54 13 54 12 53 14 53 13 53 14 53 13 61 15 61 14 62 12 62 15 66 16 66 19 46 17 46 16 45 18 45 17 45 18 45 17 65 19 65 18 66 16 66 19 41 20 41 23 57 21 57 20 58 22 58 21 58 22 58 21 42 23 42 22 41 20 41 23 57 21 57 20 53 14 53 13 54 13 54 12 54 13 54 12 58 22 58 21 57 21 57 20 61 15 61 14 45 18 45 17 46 17 46 16 46 17 46 16 62 12 62 15 61 15 61 14 65 19 65 18 49 24 49 24 50 25 50 25 50 25 50 25 66 16 66 19 65 19 65 18 29 3 29 2 73 26 73 26 74 27 74 27 74 27 74 27 30 0 30 3 29 3 29 2 73 26 73 26 69 6 69 5 70 5 70 4 70 5 70 4 74 27 74 27 73 26 73 26 77 11 77 10 41 20 41 23 42 23 42 22 42 23 42 22 78 8 78 11 77 11 77 10 81 7 81 6 37 10 37 9 38 9 38 8 38 9 38 8 82 4 82 7 81 7 81 6 28 28 28 31 35 29 35 28 6 30 6 29 6 30 6 29 21 31 21 30 28 28 28 31 29 3 29 2 34 2 34 1 35 29 35 28 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652 347 800 293 651 344 796 290 648 346 798 292 650 348 799 294 652 349 801 295 653 352 802 298 656 351 803 297 655 351 803 297 655 350 804 296 654 349 801 295 653 351 803 297 655 353 805 299 657 350 804 296 654 351 803 297 655 355 806 301 659 354 807 300 658 351 803 297 655 354 807 300 658 353 805 299 657 352 808 298 661 349 809 295 660 342 810 288 663 342 810 288 663 343 811 289 662 352 808 298 661 349 812 295 665 350 813 296 664 345 814 291 667 345 814 291 667 342 815 288 666 349 812 295 665</p>
            </triangles>
     
    #7 fufsgfen, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  8. VeyronEB

    VeyronEB
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,593
    I just don't see it being a model problem at all, the black marks in the first post dont really match any geometry on the mesh and they wouldn't just appear in the middle of the faces.

    There is really nothing wrong with the model itself and while I still can't rule out .dae problems (not loading in blender etc) it IS loading in game fine so I would think its largely irrelevant.



    I also can't recreate the problem no matter what I do.

    Would you be able to get a closer picture of the problem on one of the objects? Its hard to tell in the first picture.

    Also I know this might be dumb but are you certain it isn't grass clipping through the models from the ground?
     
    #8 VeyronEB, Jul 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
  9. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
    Expand Collapse

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2017
    Messages:
    7,075
    Max spits out some errors:
    While reading or writing a file the following notifications have been raised.
    -Warning: The transform of node "base00" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "start01" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "Colmesh_1" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "Ramp_single_a350" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -ERROR: No <image> element with ID "Concrete_plain_d-image" exists.
    -ERROR: No <image> element with ID "CRS_concreteramptex-image" exists.
    -Warning: The transform of node "Ramp_single_a100" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "Detail_350" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "Detail_100" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.
    -Warning: The transform of node "nulldetail_50" is not compatible with FBX, so it is baked into TRS.

    So I did export object to 3ds and imported to blender, which I guess messed up scale of object, but after scaling to bit under 14 meters long I took a look in Blender.

    Here is problem, is it same in Maya too? There is loose vertices:
    upload_2018-7-4_14-16-7.png

    When there is loose vertices, there comes shading issues, often, not always.

    In Blender I would do select all vertices, then choose remove doubles:
    upload_2018-7-4_14-18-41.png

    I'm not sure if this will help you trough that:


    Of course if model is fine in Maya, then it is back to investigation.

    Update: I'm putting up more videos as YT is so slow for me right now I can't to look what is in videos, so I go just by a titles here:



    --- Post updated ---
    This is puzzling me as for you model works fine in game and for Bob it is not, yet I spot some potential cause in model, why model would work differently in game for you two.

    Could it be that issue would manifest itself only with some graphics settings?

    Or maybe Max is one breaking the model? Update: This seems to be case, it is fine in Max, but when exporting from max, it gets broken up, so no easy solution in there.

    I try piece in game too and see what happens there.

    When I had exactly same looking issue with offroad fuel tank, I redid model few times as it did look like there would of been loose vertices or double edges, however it really was just specular settings/map issue.

    Update2, is there issue or not?:
    upload_2018-7-4_14-48-7.png upload_2018-7-4_14-48-35.png upload_2018-7-4_14-49-31.png

    I had diffuse color at dark, but when I remove diffuse color setting, I get same darkening at the end of the element:
    upload_2018-7-4_14-56-30.png

    I had this kind of materials.cs in last screenshot:
    singleton Material(concrete_plain)
    {
    mapTo = "concrete_plain";
    diffuseMap[0] = "concrete_plain_d.dds";
    // diffuseColor[0] = "0.639999986 0.639999986 0.639999986 1";
    // specular[0] = "0.5 0.5 0.5 1";
    // specularPower[0] = "50";
    translucentBlendOp = "None";
    };
    singleton Material(CRS_highwaytwolanebridge)
    {
    mapTo = "CRS_concreteramp";
    diffuseMap[0] = "CRS_highwaytwolanebridge.dds";
    // diffuseColor[0] = "0.639999986 0.639999986 0.639999986 1";
    // specular[0] = "0.5 0.5 0.5 1";
    // specularPower[0] = "50";
    translucentBlendOp = "None";
    };

    At certain angle there is no odd darkening, but when rotating object around, it becomes obvious that shadows are not acting well on object.


    Update Nth: Okay clever brains, why this happens, when I delete two triangles from 350 named object, add a quad and UV map that quad:
    upload_2018-7-4_15-53-24.png upload_2018-7-4_15-54-3.png

    Clearly dark spots are gone, but also why that UV map is not working, does it use UV map of some lesser object and to UV map it is required to map each of the objects, even those that I did not change?

    Also what could be in UV mapping that causes darkening to happen, is problem somehow related to that?

    I'm too stupid to understand what and why, but I can tell changing UV map clearly seems to have something to do with this shading issue.

    Oh yes, I'm stupid, newly created face used wrong material as default. I guess now this is working without darkening, just needed UV mapping manipulation:
    upload_2018-7-4_16-6-20.png
    It does require proper material settings of course and maybe specular map and whatnot?

    I don't know what has gone wrong with UV mapping then in the first place, is it something that happens at export or in Maya?

    Another interesting point is that despite using smooth shading and adjusting edge split, I think model exported from Blender still does not have quite same kind of smooth arc as original which Bob did exported from Maya.

    Some of those points hopefully help to figure out what is culprit causing this issue in first place!
     
    #9 fufsgfen, Jul 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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