General computer talk/advice

Discussion in 'Computer Hardware' started by BlueScreen, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Narwhal

    Narwhal
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    i think i did that one time. I dont remember my frames though. im gonna try it again, run banana bench while im at it.
     
  2. Cwazywazy

    Cwazywazy
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    I know I did it with an old Atom netbook (1.6GHz IIRC) and got about 2-3FPS.

    Anyway, I delidded the E7500 in my new HP. Replaced stock TIM with NT-H1. Core temps are a bit uneven, but it's still a pretty good improvement.
     
  3. SixSixSevenSeven

    SixSixSevenSeven
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    Not at all worth it.

    BeamNG runs 1 vehicle in its own "thread". 1 thread can actually run on any core of your PC, windows gets to choose which 1 and it will only be 1 core at a time. As the physics are very intensive, that thread does require very good single core performance to run well, but to run multiple vehicles you will have multiple threads and as a result they would like multiple cores. So a P4 assuming its a single threaded beast would hit problems rather quickly due to having 1 core, you would be limited to 1 vehicle, plus you would be impacted by all the other applications on your PC also wishing to use that 1 core. Just wouldnt work so well.


    Additionally. Clock speeds mean shit all for actual processor performance. Clock speeds are literally just the frequency of the timing signal being sent into the processor, a 16Hz clock speed (extremely low of course, note Hz not K/M/GHz) literally means you have an electrical signal pulsing on and off 16 times per second. 4GHz, 4 billion times per second there is a little wire that switches from high to low.

    If we say that T is 1 second, 2T is of course 2 seconds, 3 seconds and so on. This is a 1Hz square wave. High to low once per second, notably this wave appears to be square wave AC whereas a clock signal is DC, but it was otherwise the clearest diagram I had and I am not getting off my arse and drawing one instead, only difference is that in a PC clock signal the high will be a positive voltage and low will be 0 volts instead of negative volts as in this diagram.


    On 1 particular chip design, increasing the clock speed by a certain percentage will generally increase processor performance by the same percentage. However, different processors utilise that signal differently.

    Processors execute instructions. Lots of little ones. In theory you want to execute at least 1 instruction per "cycle" (I'll come back to that) but that doesnt always happen. In reality every instruction has a different number of cycles to execute depending on complexity.
    Take an Atmel AVR AtMega processor. It has an ADD instruction, this takes 1 cycle to complete. However its MUL instruction takes 2 cycles to complete. There is not a division instruction. The interrupt return instruction (RETI) takes a whopping 4 to 5 cycles depending on where in the code you are returning from.
    Take a Texas Instruments MSP430 processor. It has an ADD instruction, the MSP430 is far more flexible on what operands it can take for its instructions (AVR is fixed on only taking parameters from certain registers etc, MSP430 can do from just about anyway) which causes some problems, but its direct 1:1 equivalent AVR ADD instruction takes 2 cycles to complete instead of just 1, its most complex alternative takes upto 6 cycles to complete however it does an operation which would require multiple separate instructions on the AVR totalling 9 cycles. MSP430 does not have a multiply instruction or a divide instruction although its RETI takes about 3 cycles.

    Should be noted that a processor lacking "hardware multiply" is very very common. Possessing division capability, almost unheard of although the x86 architecture our PCs all run on does feature a DIV instruction. A full x86 instruction listing is here and without cycle timings for a very good reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86_instruction_listings A full AVR instruction listing is here *with* cycle timings which are possible thanks to the AVR core being the same pretty much everywhere except the MegaAVR parts which just get an extra column for the amended timings: http://www.atmel.com/images/doc0856.pdf

    Different instructions. Different numbers of cycles to complete depending on architecture.

    Where that comes important is on the x86 architecture though. x86 isnt an architecture at all, its an instruction set, the instructions are listed (in the link above) with their function, lots of documents on how the instruction must be formatted etc etc, but the actual chip architecture is not defined. The P4 actually uses the netburst architecture which in turn uses the x86 instruction set. A modern i3/i5/i7/xeon uses the haswell or broadwell architectures which are techically entirely different chips, but also use the x86 instruction set and therefore run the same software. The cycle timings are different, the cycle timings actually really really favour haswell over netburst. Netburst at 4ghz, thanks to a really funky pipeline (I've written a megapost on those too) and larger cycle timings actually ends up being slower than my 1.8ghz i3 ivy bridge CPU (3rd gen intel core series, haswell is 4th, broadwell 5th).





    Yes I just wrote all that to say a P4 at 4ghz is slower than a 1.8ghz ivybridge or haswell CPU (the 2 actually share timings, haswell is just more energy efficient).


    As for AVR and MSP430 architectures. You probably havent heard of them. But there are several of each sat in a box on my left, another MSP430 in a box infront of me and an AVR on the side to my right. These are microcontrollers. Very small processors, RAM and flash memory all integrated in 1 teeny tiny chip. There is a microcontroller in just about every electronic device in your house. The kindle fire touchscreen is actually controlled by an MSP430 which then reports touch data back to the kindle fire processor through an i2c bus. I've found both PIC and AVR chips on circuitboards I've salvaged (PIC being another microcontroller, a very very funky one) and ARM also design parts intended for microcontroller usage of which again I have a whole ton lying around here. Want to know more, look up "arduino"
     
  4. B. Tanner

    B. Tanner
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    Hi there,

    just in case somebody is poor like me and still uses a lga775 mainboard/cpu combination. There is a LGA771 to LGA775 mod. This is cool because with that you can use Intel Xeon Cpus which are much cheaper on Ebay with your regular mainboard. In my case i got a Xeon X5450 which is more or less an Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9650. I paid for the Xeon 30€ plus 6€ for the mod instead of >120€ for similar strong Core 2.

    But it is still not capable of BeamNG. I have ~24FPS. So dont mind to do it for BeamNG. For everyone else living on a budget its a nice and cheap upgrade opportunity.
    /Nope, it totally works. I got the wrong multiplier of my old cpu in the bios. Now with the right multiplier and the full power i have 40fps. Nice.
    I paid so far 136€ for a system which is capable of beamNG.

    Oh, yeah look out for the Xeon E5XXX instead of the X5XXX versions. They got the same power but use less watts.
     
    #744 B. Tanner, Apr 8, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2015
  5. SuperNoob05

    SuperNoob05
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    So I've just had a quick look on amazon and found that a GTX 960 costs about 200€.
    My current graphics card, the GTX 750 is still being sold for 150€.
    I'm really thinking about buying it ones I have the money, it's just so tempting.
     
  6. randomshortguy

    randomshortguy
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    I just bough a GTX 960, upgraded from a 750 ti, and although in most games you can see gains of 150% of a 750 ti, in BeamNG you'll only get about 10 FPS more at the same settings. I still drop below 50 with shadows on normal and PostFX off, no AA. Torque3D could use some optimization, GTA IV runs better than this.
     
  7. SuperNoob05

    SuperNoob05
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    Look what I found :
    IMG_20150410_144015[1].jpg


    IMG_20150410_144037[1].jpg

    IMG_20150410_144059[1].jpg


    IMG_20150410_144114[1].jpg

    ​cell phone cameras suck
     
  8. cameron4me

    cameron4me
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  9. Narwhal

    Narwhal
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    guys. how many computers is too many? cause i over 50.

    also,
    serious question, would buying a NIC card solve this problem?
    when my internet cuts off(electrical outlet timer cuts power to main internet)some of my applications, mainly web browsers dont regonize that the internet is back on when it turns on.
    i have tried:
    reinstall of web browser
    using IE, Firefox, Chrome, and Chrome Canary.
    manually setting ip address,
    doing the command /dns release And /dns renew.
     
  10. SuperNoob05

    SuperNoob05
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    You saying Athlon made me remember a very sad story :

    So, a few years ago I had a PC with the Sapphire Radeon 6450 that I just recently found again, and some 3.2 GHZ Quad core Athlon (I believe it actually was a 2600+).
    It just kept bluescreening for some reason (now that I think about it, it might have been the PSU), so my father wanted to inspect the CPU (since he didn't know what the problem was and I didn't have a big knowledge of PCs back then).
    He wanted to take the CPU cooler of, but then it happened.
    He accidentelly got the cooler out of there in a way, that made the CPU come out with it.
    All of the Pins that were left (since some of them fell of) were bend to an on fixable degree.
    I actually still have the heatsink laying around, so I will never forget it.
     
  11. cameron4me

    cameron4me
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    That's really sad, I might do that to my dad, so he can upgrade to my old PC which is a Phenom quad core clocked at 3.2 GHz, coincidence much? And I really dont think the 2600+ is a quad core, I think it is a single core actually clocked at 1.7 GHz if he is correct, probably not.
     
  12. SuperNoob05

    SuperNoob05
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    All I could find on amazon was an AMD Athlon 2600 X4 3.2GHZ (might actually be what was in that old PC, not sure though).
    I can't remember the exact name of the thing though. It's years ago.
    But I'm fairly certain that it was a 2600 X4 Athlon.
     
  13. BlueScreen

    BlueScreen
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    The Athlon 2600+ is a socket 754 single-core CPU. I have an Athlon 2800+ in my pile of old parts, not too great but at least better than a P4.

    Also, just saw this build in PCPP: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/NtyfrH

    ALL THE FANS
     
  14. pf12351

    pf12351
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    I have found myself at a low in computer memory, so I need a new storage drive. I need help deciding between these. I need at least 1TB, so I am considering:

    Western Digital Black 7200 RPM 2TB - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php...=25574&zenid=e2e202331c43c0624196f9cd40018612 ($175)

    or

    Samsung 850 EVO series 1TB - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=210_902_1370&products_id=30450 ($529)

    The SSD is not worth the cost, is it? I will have to wait on the SSD to save my own money, whereas the HDD is accessible. Is there really that much of a difference? This is just for games and videos on the drive.

    Thanks pf.
     
  15. BlueScreen

    BlueScreen
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    Get the HDD, then buy a 120-256 GB SSD for OS and software you use very often.
     
  16. Funky7Monkey

    Funky7Monkey
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    In your situation, the SSD is unnecessary. Buy the HDD. You'd want a small SSD (100-250 GB or so) for things you want to load very quickly (operating system, games, etc).

    Actually, since it is for storage, I'd recommend a WD Blue or Seagate Barracuda.
     
  17. pf12351

    pf12351
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    Isn't black the fastest? I actually don't know the differences, kinda noob at storage ;)
     
  18. BlueScreen

    BlueScreen
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    Blacks are faster, but Blues are cheaper and good enough for storage. A WD Black will boot faster, but I'd rather get a Blue and a small SSD for OS.
     
  19. pf12351

    pf12351
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    Here is the horrible thing, I had a green WD 2TB hdd, and it was working fine. It was going to be used for extra space, but, some how the SATA cable bent the pins, and when we took the cable out, the plastic around the pins came too, so the cable no longer clicks with it, rendering it useless.
     
  20. Waxenaura08510

    Waxenaura08510
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