Agree a bit . Mercedes sedan , front engined Porsches (expect the Cayenne), the Audi Quattro S1 and old VW are things i like too
Don’t bring WWII into this, as we were bombed even with warning beforehand. Also, you probably couldn’t defend against a country that was taking over all of Europe either
I like how „French vs American” turned into a WW2 conversation --- Post updated --- Only on beamng forums
So, one person defending french cars doesn't know how to point out facts, and make it stupid, and on other side are americans clueless about french cars....remind you...it's such an american thing to trash on something without learning anything about it or knowing anything about it. USA cars will always have great cars in the memories of many, from design, engines, style and more, I do think they're really cool too, i'm french myself and live in France, years ago, I went to a classis car exposition/meet twice where it was only old school americans cars and had one of the best times in my life, now I live in another city and go to a car meet that happens every 3rd Sunday of the month, i'm still seeing americans cars and they're great We don't have diversity in engines(pretty much only V6 or 4 cylinders). every manufacturers from all over the world have unreliable cars, french brands aren't out of the box I'll agree with the bad electronics, "Death traps".....I'm not gonna comment on that, seeing how much dumb and idiotic that argument is...since it's contradictory if you side for americans cars. No i'm not bringing Bugatti in my comment and never will..... but Do you know what a fricking TU engine is ? yeah....TU engines, and also XU engines by Peugeot/Citroen, that can kill real ass in tuning and is also very reliable just like LS engines or Honda 4 bangers, etc... Making them reach 400hp, 500hp or more is very possible, tho it's mostly 250hp-300Hp for like hillclimb races and others, but just to remind you, those are in very light cars.... Cléont Fonte engines by Renault in so many cars are very reliable(yes, just like LS engines or the most reliable V8s, whatever) All 05 series peugeots are pretty much fine, very reliable All 06 series peugeots, same way of being good as the previous series. for the 07 series.....it really depends, some are very unreliable as fuck and some are the complete opposite. and the 08 series? it's too new, I don't really have any opinions on them, some are bad and some are good, up to you. At one point back then, Peugeot itself was the reference, being the best at making diesels. here's some numbers, models for Peugeot, Renault, Citroen since some thinks they aren't "collectibles" It can be for the highest, sporty versions, or specials, wagons but still Peugeot 305,505,504,605,405,106,206,306,404,406,308,208,508(there is more) Renault and Alpine 4CV,Dauhpine, 4L, R8 Gordini, R6, R12 Gordini, Torino TS, R17 TL, R5 turbo(mid engine or not), R15, R18 Turbo, R30 TX, etc Fuego Turbo, 11 Turbo, old Espaces,R25 Baccara, Safrane Biturbo, R21 Turbo, Clio Williams, Spider, Avantime, Clio V6, etc And Twingos are gonna be collectibles A106, A108, A110, A310, GTA V6 Turbo/GT/LeMans, A160 and more etc Citroen 2CV(so many versions), DS, ID, SM, , XM, CX BX, C6, AX, ZX, Saxo VTS, Traction Avant, Xantia, Xsara, etc Damn that's quite a lot of collectibles. All of the 3 had their great times in Competition, motorsports. Saying all french cars are unreliable is like me saying Chinese automakers make better engines than Chevy.... a little AX can last way more than so many embarassing ford pick up trucks... About Citroen itself? having the most won in rally, hydropneumatic suspensions, many reliable hot hatches and hatchbacks. Suspensions..USA made really good cars and a shit ton of them are reliable as fuck while having a shit ton of part, having very iconic muscle cars 60s 70s and further to today.... but gosh....old iconic muscle cars with great V8 really have pussy "leaf" suspensions? that's fucking embarrassing, you guys also have shitty interiors for many cars, shitty visibility for some, and some are just bad overall. I prefer way more the hydropneumatic suspensions, where some citroens having that system, did rally, races in competition, or simply cruising. "Lack of creature comfort" HYDROPNEUMATIC CITROENS exist.... from all the "comfortable" and badass americans cars compared to an SM, sorry i'm taking the SM. To the the mustang fanboy, you mad? oh sorry that many french cars are reliable and actually good. Sorry that your favorite brand went Woke as shit with the generic ass shiity F-150 and mocked the Mustang line up with the Mach E. Why so many are importing in the US and actually appreciating french cars? oh....that's weird for some people I forgot....from DougDemuro, many others cars channels etc... Still better than the germans at comfort for old cars, even Jay Leno said there were no competitors for comfort against the DS or others citroens. Interiors? you just have to look at the good ones, if you only look at very common french cars, you're not gonna go far with the bad ones. and also, RWD french cars exist....Peugeots have some, Renaults too. Conclusion : French brands have great cars and bad cars. Americans brands have great cars and bad cars. Voila!!!
Other things : The mk1 A-class is prone to flip, while the 2cv , is the literal opposite, and is 40 years older. McLaren 650 lt and Porsche 911 GT2 RS got up to 81 km/h on the moose test, yet , there was the 90's Xantia activa S, wich is still the fastest with the speed of 83 km/h. An American did a speed record on Bonneville in an Sm (325) wich took a long Time to be beated . The only engine modification being two extra turbos. Peugeot beated the Americans 2 (maybe 3) Times at one of their playground : the pikes Peak. With a 405 , then with a 208 (maybe the first Time being with the group B 205). Alpine has done a great record with an electric A110 .
Well, I'm gonna point some things on this. First, I didn't say there aren't American cars that are death traps, and didn't say that all American cars are reliable. There are a lot of GM cars in North America that have lots of issues like that. Second, I'm not American, I'm just a person that lives in a country which there are more French cars than American cars, but there are way more American brand rebadged models. So I can understand about the French cars. Third, I don't ever see any American car or even American rebadged car that has as many problems as French cars have. Last week, I've been walking in the streets when I saw one of the few Peugeots that I see in the roads nowadays, it's a Peugeot 207 sedan which had transmission issues. The car stalled at some point which the driver had issues trying to shift the gear. Fourth, I didn't say that there aren't French collectible cars. The notable ones are Alpine cars and old Bugatti cars, although modern Bugatti cars are collectible but are the least exclusive of the hypercars. However, most of the cars you've mentioned are in the junkyard most of the time. If they aren't in the junkyard, then the collectors just are cult car collectors. Fifth, your comment about when I said about Death Traps is kinda childish of you, mentioning it's "dumb and idiotic" and "contradictory" when what I'm talking about collectible cars, and not cult cars or cheap cars. Although you might have a point about American compact cars being death traps and French sports cars being safe, but you don't see lots of French sports cars around, so your argument is flawed. Sixth, who the hell would rather a Citroen SM over a Mustang Fastback? I know there is always a crazy person who would rather the SM, I respect that, but for real, I thnk those are ugly in my opinion. Just look at a similar modern car, the Hispano-Suiza Carmen from Spain. And if that's not enough, the SM is FWD, which is cheap and flawed when it comes to sports cars. I mean, what's the point of this? Seventh, I would rather a American muscle car interior over the French car interior. I mean, ever since there are lots of unnecessary electronics (excluding AC, ABS, ESC, TC, improved steering wheel, and others which are quality of life improvements) in the cars, the cars became extremely unreliable and you get distracted in a point of sometimes crashing the car, especially when one of the pioneers on this is Peugeot. I would rather a modern car without screens in the panel, many buttons or settings that can be only accessible from the screen, or electronics that won't let you drive properly (although some of the electronic assists mentioned would be all good). Eighth but not the least, I feel like this thread is becoming kind of toxic, in a way some people argue about which is better. Not gonna lie, I like nearly every car, but my favorite car is the American muscle. But this is getting us nowhere, so I'll not comment on this anymore in here. I'm done in here. I respect your taste of cars, and so you should.
I don't think American cars are better, at least the years from 2007 to today. From maybe 2005 to the mid-60s, American cars were great. We has cars that were the size and weight of a trans-continental oil tanker, and handled like one too. I'd much rather have a mid-60s boat than a modern American car. Why? to push all the European and Japanese econo-boxes out of the way. Or maybe I just like heavy, old cars. Generally, the "which is better" topics get toxic. I don't want this thread to start blowing up with bad opinions (like mine)(from both sides) and slurs thrown at eachother. This thread was destined to get toxic just by the title. "Which is better: X or Y" always ends badly. Just let this thread die.
(You don't need to answer back for this) I let the "death trap" fade away, not worth arguing or talking about. Boi, you should be surprised. you should very be suprised. I mentioned some cars that aren't the most reliable but I did mention many that are just way too reliable. The citroens I mentioned aren't going to be cars you find mostly in junkyard than in roads. Same for Peugeots, I can agree for the 605, but the rest, not really. That argument is a bit more accurate with a couple old Renaults models for sure I can confirm that. So It's more critical for renault I'll say where you can be very right for a couple models, some are very resistant and some are a fricking rarity, (like the espaces,and way WAY more). (that junkyard argument is just weird for me). I'm at the core, I'm in france, you live somewhere where there aren't any enthusiasts french cars I bet, they probably aren't even available where you live. French car culture is expanding more and more, with enthusiasts having french cars , Australia, USA, Japan, England, and many more countries, in Japan they literally have a dedicated "dealership" garage specialised in french cars, mostly hydropneumatic citroens. and YES, they work on them, they also have the more uncommon french cars that most people don't know. And the junkyard argument doesn't hold up when you could apply that to different cars brands like Japanese, even American or whatever country. I'm not gonna argue with the rest since it's pretty much personal preferences and you can't be wrong for having those preferences. But... I wouldn't call the SM a "sport car" or maybe it is but then it's out of the box. And I stand by my conclusion in my last comment which is just logic and simple and that I didn't point out in the end that french was better than US or vice versa. Both sides have good and bad things
He says the SM isn't a sport car because it is Fwd. I could Say the oldsmobile Toronado isn't a muscle car for the same reason
