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Are recommended settings still accurate?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 2FA$T4U, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. Sithhy™

    Sithhy™
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    I have a MSI 1060 6GT OC1, i5-6400 & 8GB DDR4 RAM on a MSI B150M PRO-VDH motherboard. Most games run at 60fps on 1080p without any problems really, but in BeamNG? 1-2 cars on "Normal" settings (without SSAO & with Partial Shadows) is fine, but you start running into fps drops at 3 or more physics objects at a time
     
  2. 2FA$T4U

    2FA$T4U
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    Ok. So maybe a GTX 1070?
     
  3. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Sitthy might get CPU graphics bottleneck too (I would consider SC of his CPU being likely reason for fps drops), but 1070 should be sure choice if you can afford.

    Avoid 3GB model of 1060.

    All I know is that I don't get more than 60% power usage with gtx1080, so any card that can get to 60% of what gtx1080 can do, should at least in theory run BeamNG at 60fps solid, if CPU is able to feed the card.

    6400 has slower SC speed than my 6700 and I get fps drops with 3 vehicles at WCUSA because of my CPU single core speed.

    GPU heavy location of WCUSA I can run this well, with UI on I get 56fps, that is 59% GPU power usage, turning on SSAO or/and dynamic reflections would of course lower FPS more and increase bit of GPU power usage:
    upload_2018-12-12_8-31-35.png

    That is 100% CPU limited situation and 100% limited by single core performance of CPU, 8 threads could do much more, but 1 thread is at maximum.

    Also with 6400 and gtx1060 that would be CPU limited situation AFAIK, have not had 1060 to test, but that is what I would presume.

    gtx1070 should be good for around 80% of what gtx1080 can do, 1050Ti would be around 40% maybe bit less, so 1060 is near there, but with 1070 you can be certain it is enough.

    So what I'm thinking is that if Sitthy would upgrade to 6700k (or K model of skylake i5) he might gain more fps with 3 vehicles than by upgrading to gtx1080.

    8400 is about 30% slower in SC than my 6700, 8086k overclocked to 4.8Ghz is less than 30% faster in SC than my 6700, with 12 threads that cpu is very much limited by single core speed and still bottle neck to gtx1080 in this game, it just is so until game evolves.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. Sithhy™

    Sithhy™
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    I've thought about upgrading, but first I would need to earn the required money in some way... Would then go all out & get an i7-7700 as that's the best this particular motherboard can take :p
     
  5. jkarmy2000

    jkarmy2000
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    I have a gtx 1070 and it mostly is around 30% on highest settings 1080p using an i5 2500k.
    It gets around the same framerate like my old gtx 750 ti on lowest settings. So maybe it is better going with a 1060.
     
  6. 2FA$T4U

    2FA$T4U
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    Well now I am confused. I have people telling me Intel gets way better single core performance than AMD, but now I am being told that Intel and AMD don't have that much of a difference. Since I am on budget, should I just get a Ryzen? Also, I am only familiar with GTX graphics cards. Can somebody explain what the equivalent to a GTX 1070 is with each brand? (E.g. Radeon RX, Firepro, GeForce GT, Quadro, Radeon HD, Radeon Pro, Radeon R9, Rageon RX, Radeon RX Vega?) Other than the CPU and the GPU, it looks like I am all figured out.
    --- Post updated ---
    I would get a GTX 1060, but like @fufsgfen said, I don't want to take any chances, because I am going to have this PC for a long time.
    --- Post updated ---
    I made a list that is the same build, except it has a AMD processor. Since it is 300$ cheaper, Inwould go with it as long as it is not really laggy. Here is the link: https://pcpartpicker.com/list/qtMnJ8
     
  7. Capkirk

    Capkirk
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    Well, Intel does have better Single Core performance, but Ryzen tends to have better Overall performance. While Beam is currently limited by single core performance in most situations, the devs hope to decrease this limit. And, a Ryzen processor will be better for almost everything other than gaming. I wouldn't recommend going quite so cheap though, a Ryzen 5 2600 or 2600X would get you similar performance to a i7 6700K, while still being quite a bit cheaper.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    2600X overclocked would also have good single core speed what I have been able to gather, so that would serve well I think.

    Nadeox did mention on some of the recent very active topic along lines of single core engine being chosen design, so good amount of single core performance is probably needed always.

    Browser extensions tend to also be single core limited, those can be quite heavy at times. Lot of situations really where I find single core speed being one I need. With i7-6700 it is really rare to get overall CPU limit to happen, but in the future software will move more and more away from single core needs as that has not really evolved much at all, while GPU power has evolved and now core counts are increasing, so not many years that single core limit will be important I think.

    Zen2 would be something that I would wait for though, save money until next summer and upgrade then would probably give more than 5 years of happy computing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. 2FA$T4U

    2FA$T4U
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    Alright.
    --- Post updated ---
    I
    I did more research on the Zen. It says it is a x32 processor. Doesn’t BeamNG need a x64 processor to run?
     
  10. Capkirk

    Capkirk
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    x32 isn't a thing(?). If you mean 32-bit, no one has made a 32-bit desktop processor since the early 2000s for the most part. All Zen processors are 64-bit
     
  11. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Zen2 will use 7nm process, which means it will have faster computing speed at same clock speed as Zen (Ryzen 1600) or Zen+ (Ryzen 2600), I hope I did remember that right, out from memory, but what will come should be much better and it will have more cores too, so more everything really.

    Also it should lover price of current models.

    I wonder if x32 you found out would be 32 cores or something like that, it was insane number that those server models will have that will come out first.

    Roughly it is that that with AMD you get 1.8 times the performance for the dollar than with Intel, but Intel usually reaches higher maximum single core performance, then you try to figure out if AMD is enough for your purposes or if it is not.

    In a future probably AMD will be far better choice as meaning of single core performance gets lesser with time, but right now, right today for BeamNG Intel K models do deliver much needed boost for performance, but I really would wait out now for next spring/summer if possible.

    CPU prices are bit high overall now anyways.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. 2FA$T4U

    2FA$T4U
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    Ok. Yeah I meant x86 instead of x32
    --- Post updated ---
    Thanks for your time guys! I think I know everything I need to know. This really saved me. If I would of bought a FX, I would be saying “Why is BeamNG running so slow? I Appreciate it!
    --- Post updated ---
    If there is anything else I need to know, I will still be active.
     
  13. Michaelflat

    Michaelflat
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    do note that x86 is probably just written to differentiate it from ARM, in reality x86 is a 32bit CPU and x86-64 is a 64bit CPU, last time intel released a 32bit CPU was approx 2005. So it's probably x86-64 :)

    BeamNG doesn't use many cores unless you use many vehicles, i don't think there would be a reason to go over 8cores on this game, unless you are making a movie or something :p
     
  14. 2FA$T4U

    2FA$T4U
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  15. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Psssst, check task manager when you are running Italy :p
    upload_2018-12-29_19-11-59.png
    I think that ETK K-series was using even more of those other cores, but yeah, one core works hard there.

    Ryzen 5 2600X would be quite good budget model, with small overclock it should do 60fps in Italy without issues and still be able to run really lot of cars. New AI script tool makes it more important to have more cars running as now there is much more uses for them. Also future AI improvements are coming, so multicore performance would be cool.

    Then there was mentioning about future optimizations, so it might get even better.

    Single core test of this https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/ gives me 121 and you really want slightly faster than that to not be under 60fps in Italy with highest graphics. Turn SSAO off, dynamic reflections off and I get 60fps all times.

    On above linked listing you can sort it by single core performance, on 2nd place there is 8086K, other CPU I have here. When overclocked to 4.8Ghz that gives 15-20fps more in such CPU limited situation, without overclock, well good luck if half of that.

    So while SC performance is what defines how much FPS you get (in case GPU is not a limit) there is limits of how much you can have of that.

    With overclocked Ryzen 5 2600X you should see more than 121 points, so pretty good, Intel is faster but for twice the price you gain something like 15-25% more FPS when overclocked, is not really worth it.

    So as long as avoiding lower end models of CPUs, you should be able to get fine performance wise now and great in future.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Michaelflat

    Michaelflat
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    also AM4 has some good upgrade paths, if the rumors come true at CES...
     
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  17. DutchyGamer

    DutchyGamer
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    I've got an I5-6600k, GTX970 and 16gb of DDR4 memory in my main pc..
    I play on almost the highest settings but I rarely get 60 fps. (dyn.reflections and some settings disabled, can't remember, currently on laptop)
    I guess my cpu isn't that good interms of single core performance..

    My laptop has an i7-4710HQ, GTX860M and 12gb of DDR3 memory and....believe it or not I can play at higher settings, it stutters a bit more (probably due to the very very bad condition SSHD (yes) it has*).
    Even the gpu usage is higher than cpu usage.

    *it really slows down everything
     
  18. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Press ctrl-f ingame and see how much GPU wait is, without vsync and at full screen that is usually 0.1 when GPU is not limiting, higher numbers hint about GPU limitation.

    6600K should be better than my CPU in single core, afaik, you should have 60fps pretty much always with single car.

    I think GTX970 should be at least as fast as 1060, so definitely it should run most maps 60fps.

    There can be of course other reasons, some other software causing more CPU load or some other issue limiting what CPU or GPU can do.

    Currently there is something odd in settings of the game, there is hardly difference between low and high, Nadeox did post in one thread that some user found restarting was needed for setting to change, but nevertheless, your hardware should allow your game to run 60fps pretty much always.

    Check console with ~ key and see if there are lot of errors being spammed there, also check taskmanager when game is not running and see individual core loads, I have seen some program using 20-30% of one core which hardly shows up in total CPU usage, but is seriously affecting fps in game.


    Your laptop has bit slower GPU I believe, so that results higher GPU usage, total CPU usage is then kinda useless as one core is not showing up so much and even when task manager shows 80% utilization of one core, reality can be it is peaking at 100% so fast it is not showing up, but I have found out increasing core speed does increase FPS in such situation, so there really is no other explanations for it.

    In 0.15 BeamNG should run 60fps with very modest hardware on most maps, Italy being such huge and detailed does require some computing power though, but I think with your main pc every map should stay easily at 60fps on high graphics, ssao and dynamic reflections off gives lot of help, but even with those you should be most of the time at 60fps or more.

    There was one user with bit similar odd low fps and he wrote that enabling advanced functions did improve his fps, it is bit odd though, it should not have anything to do with fps, it might be related to restarting and change of graphics settings, but toggling that on and off would not harm of course.



    Thermal issues might also be something, but quite rare TBH.

    Doing Userbenchmark test and comparing to what others get might give some indication if there is some general issue with performance, it is quite easy and simple to do.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. Ewanc

    Ewanc
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    The Radeon cards are dipping way down in price and on a yearly scale are down by like 300%. Now really is the time to buy a GPU. Be aware that the drivers for those cards have had issues with several driving games (this one, and My Summer Car) and have significant visual flaws, which kills the visual performance. Discount AMD cards are also popping up which were made for crypto mining and don't come with HDMI and Display Port outputs.The 1050Ti and 1060 3GB are both great medium tier cards and would work great with this game,

    I'd stay away from anything lower than that including any GTX700 and 900 series cards. If you were to just have an old high end card laying around you might want to stick with it and just get a beefy PSU to match, but the rule of diminishing returns applies if your trying to upgrade to old high-end tech; trade-offs like less features, support and lower efficiency. A whole new batch of GPUs are due to come out soon, making 10 series look like dinosaurs, so anything lower would be foolish.

    Ive been watching this list like a hawk https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_value.html It shows the average benchmark rating of each card relative to price, so you can tell the current best value.

    This game's physics system is what you really need to factor in, so choose your CPU wisely and pick one that has high bit-crunching capabilities. Buying fast RAM is also important and it will slash loading times as will a fast NVMe SSD. As with any hardware for a new build stay away from old gen like Athlon and FX series. It is only compatible with old motherboards and will drastically lower the life span of your PC by limiting feature across the board.

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_value_available.html here's another list similar to the GPU one, but for CPUs. AMD is killing it this year with second gen Ryzen and according to this list the AMD Ryzen 3 2200G @ $100 is an awesome value, as is my personal favorite budget CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 @ $150; it scores 13000 which blows away most mid/high-end CPUs especially in any kind of $/performance comparison. I hadn't been paying attention and got an i3 8100, which is the best value from Intel and offers alot of bang/core, but the new Ryzen stuff runs circles around it.

    For SSDs; the Samsung 570 EVO is amazing and you really get your moneys worth. I got a 500Gb and a cheap 2 TB mechanical HHD for media only and it seems roomy enough for all my games and applications.
     
    #39 Ewanc, Dec 31, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2018
  20. fufsgfen

    fufsgfen
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    Ryzen 2600 gets only 109 in single core test here:
    https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/

    My CPU gets 121 in that test and I'm still constantly finding single core performance being what causes lower GPU utilization in many situations in this game, can't use SSAO or dynamic reflections always because of that.

    Also daily I read about other users who are experiencing same.

    While game did improve that limitation massively in 0.15 and according to NDX post in 0.15 thread, there should be more optimizations to come, that single core performance is still very important.

    So much that I would think Ryzen 5 1700X would be better choice than Ryzen 5 2600, you really want highest clock unlocked Ryzens for this game if you are going to enough fast GPU that you can use maximum graphics.

    Also adding several cars require single core performance each, so while total CPU core is impressive you don't get to use it with low single core performance.

    It is not only issue in BeamNG, but many other games get same kind of issues, new GPUs are so insanely much fast and have improved in performance much faster than single core performance of CPUs that it is difficult to get CPU to utilize GPU or all cores fully.

    Coming years probably see change in that, at least in some games, but for now I would still make sure single core performance is at least close to 120 or higher with any CPU one buys right now. (overclocked if not with stock clocks)
     
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