Update Speculation thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by crazikyle, Jan 26, 2016.

  1. ManfredE3

    ManfredE3
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    This doesn't address what I said at all. I'm not denying that the game takes place in 2020, I'm denying that the setting of the game justifies having uneven representation of the roster.

    The game's setting based on current maps is Italy and USA in present day. Being that the ETK test center is just a test center for the driver school campaign and Automation map is just for the collab, I'm not counting those as gameplay settings. By the logic of "the roster should follow the setting of the game" we would only have modern USA and Italian cars. Nothing (or at least an under-representation of) pre-2000 or Japanese/German/French/British/Australian/Soviet/Sweedish/Canadian vehicles by that logic.

    This is a vehicle sim, it ought to have a reasonably even representation of vehicles. Part of being a well rounded car sim is a well rounded car roster.
     
    #30161 ManfredE3, Apr 10, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  2. Penguin72

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    While I do agree with most of this, how do the D series and Roamer hardly count? Just because they started production earlier than the year 2000 doesn't mean they count any less than a 2000's car than a vehicle that started production between 2000 and 2009.

    Also, I doubt the developers will keep a new > old > new > old pattern much longer because they don't want to oversaturate the game with modern cars while there are still plenty of older categories that haven't been filled.
     
  3. Cory5503

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    I struggle to understand how you can assume a game that is currently just a sandbox/simulator can be set in any specific year. I would wait until Career mode comes out before making such bold assumptions...
     
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  4. Kasir

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    I meant that they don't really count because they're just facelifts, not independent vehicles.
     
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  5. Cincinnatus

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    This isn't Forza. This is a free roam simulator. :)
     
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  6. robert357

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    The answer is simple. That time defines that uneven numbers of cars for that year UNLESS game have specified events. Just like IRL you won't see many cars from 70s UNLESS there is specified event like car show, vintage race, banger etc.

    So yes, for now it's logical that game should have even numbers of cars in each decade. Game still don't have story, it's just a sandbox. The best scenario will be when each vehicle will have it's own competitor (eg. LeGran vs Wendover, Pessima vs ETK I-series etc).

    However it would take also decades to make car list even on whole timeline if we count everything from 1950 to 2020. That why many games have uneven number of older cars OR modern cars (if there is a story that take place mostly in the past). Of course there are games that trying keep it even, but let's face it. I would love to see that but I don't think there is enough workforce to accomplish this (with full respect to the devs, don't be mad).
     
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  7. moses72

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    i know
     
  8. Trophy

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    Its good for career mode, but not at all for freeroam.
     
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  9. moses72

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    yeah
    especially since you could just freecam and teleport to it
     
  10. ManfredE3

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    So you're saying we need to focus on cars for the gameplay setting that make sense in IRL driving? Because that leaves us with a roster of 2000-2020 American and Italian commuter cars, commercial vehicles, and municipal vehicles. This is sounding like an incredibly boring hypothetical vehicle roster.

    BeamNG is a car game, not limited to present day daily driving. Videogame devs of every studio need to consider the sort of game they are going for when they pick the roster (at least for games with smaller rosters, so Forza Horizon and GTA V aside). NFS Hot Pursuit games are nearly completely limited to modern and modern-classic high end performance cars because that's what they are going for. Wreckfest has a roster limited to classic and modern classic cars because that's what they are going for. So again, if we want a well-rounded game, we need a well-rounded roster.
     
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  11. fivedollarlamp

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    The distribution of vehicles within the game's roster shouldn't be completely even. Comparing the broad appeal and career-mode applicability of different vehicle archetypes, some are clearly more applicable and appealing than others.
     
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  12. ManfredE3

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    "Even to a reasonable degree" was implied. Of course it's of no use to follow "even distribution" to a draconian extent, especially since this game is always going to have a small roster and therefore sample size compared to some other games in the genre. I certainly don't expect a perfect representation of the real world automotive sample as cars like the Dale would be rather stupid to have represented (although thinking about the idea of the Dymaxion car in BeamNG is certainly funny)
     
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  13. btcb48

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    So... anyone noticed the additional "non-Overdrive" Drive position in the Wendover's floor/console shifter?
    Don't mind me, no time to go through the last 50 pages.

    Implementation of OD-off is, personally at least, the most overdue of the remaining "missing" capabilities that the more basic, but electronics fitted, automatics should feature.

    The issue would be that the rest still use a D21 shift pattern, and a separate OD toggle switch would realistically require another control binding or some funny code to make it work with the simple up/down gear select controls.

    On this topic, spoiler box for those interested:
    To share a bit, "basic" electronic logic autos, or the really old purely mechanical type, always try to "short" upshift the moment the gas pedal is released if the resulting RPM (assuming correct calibration) is sufficiently above idle, a mechanically sympathetic driver uses these "lower than normal D" positions to prevent this constant up-down shifting when throttle input is varied. Preventing gear hunting, in other words. Towing on hilly roads is a common usage example given in owner manuals.

    The 2 position in purely mechanical autos, sometimes shown as D in 2 speed models, almost always means skipping 1st and forcing to 2nd. Sufficient reduction for commuting about in the 2nd ratio would be achieved purely from the torque converter, but a keen driver can "manually" use the 1 position to win the stoplight drags, in a sense it's unrestricted manu-sequential style shifting but with a mechanically inefficient anti-stall fluid coupling. Have personally set up the 2 speed Bluebuck and Miramar to behave this way based on their close IRL analogues.

    Many modern autos can be forced to start from a standstill in the 2nd ratio using the sequential mode, though somewhat less important today with properly tuned TCS. Certain models bypass the 1st ratio by default too, like powerful V12 models, and most implementations of the infamous transverse ZF 9 speed.

    Back with these old mechanical autos, assuming engagement of the "appropriate" bands/clutches, shift to a lower position while at max RPM in the highest ratio and some metal bits can probably score a job offer for the Boring company or SpaceX.

    Electronic controls and sensors thus brought us safeties and sometimes configurable behaviour.

    Shifting to 2 or L or trying to disengage OD at max RPM in top gear would only preselect the lower gear ratio, only actually down shifting when a safe RPM limit is met. This could still cause a somewhat destabilizing jump in RPM, especially without engine drag torque control or rev-matching. Engine braking in the, say, 2nd ratio can be different between D and 2 depending on the specific implementation of the bands/clutches. (Old service/repair manuals can be goldmines of info)

    Most of the pre-00's but electronics fitted Japanese autos only had "limit to" behaviour, even some of the 6 speed Toyota autos of the past 10 years still behave this way in their sequential-esque mode. For example, the S position sets it to S4 by default and disables the (barely) adaptive aggression logic, the car would short shift up to the 4th ratio when the minimal possible RPM is reached and minimal gas pedalling is applied. The behaviour is actually quite similar to the D432L positions used in some of their preceding 5 speeds, just using a compact + and - selector instead of multiple distinct positions.

    Some 4-speed Mazdas had an alt mode switch, similar to some Germans, to toggle between (default) "limit to" and a pseudo "force to" mode that skipped certain high or low ratios depending which of the D2L positions was chosen. Complaints about complexity and the introduction of TCS resulted in a gradual reversion to a simple OD-off toggle that only affected the D position by the time of their first 5 speeds, though they soon switched entirely to a sequential mode.

    Honda integrated both modes into the regular shift pattern for their 4 speeds, distinguishing them by printing a D in front of the limit modes: available forward drive positions could be D4, D3 (OD-off), and then 2, which forces to the 2nd ratio.

    I believe that some of the electronically controlled Ford 4 speeds have unique behaviour for the 2 position too: Low to moderate throttle means force to 2, but flooring it from a standstill can make it start in the 1st ratio.
     
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  14. Diamondback

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    This doesn't even just apply to really powerful stuff. The ZF8 also does this in the 6 cylinder 1/2series if in D rather than S.

    Fun fact, launch control in the new M3 and M4 models (which are back to ZF8 rather than DCT) also starts in second gear.
     
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  15. Softair

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    He probably means the Pigeon, but I don´t get why should it be a joke car. There are similar vehicles to the Pigeon in the real world.
     
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  16. vidderus

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    Well, it's probably considered a joke car because it has no configs and parts. It's also probably also a joke car because it's not the best driving car you know... It flips often.
     
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  17. McBeamer94

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    This also happens in the F90 M5, with the same gearbox.
     
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  18. Rubidium

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    Despite the fact that I like the idea of having a three-wheeler in Beam, I think the Pigeon should be moved as an Italian or British (or even Indian) vehicle.
    It would have much more sense in my opinion, as Japanese three-wheelers were more a thing of the 50's and not the 80's.
     
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  19. McBeamer94

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    I noticed something else, this time related to the Wendover: although it is newer than the LeGran (1984), the D-Series (1986) and being the same initial model year as the Covet (1987), it doesn't have a high mounted stop light, which seems weird!
     
    #30179 McBeamer94, Apr 10, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  20. skodakenner

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    Im not too sure but there were some japanese three wheel cars too
     
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