WIP Tyre Wear and Thermals Mod (discussion) 0.19.1

Have a chat here and let me know your thoughts on the mod, all feedback is welcome!
Mod page:
https://www.beamng.com/resources/tyre-thermals-and-wear-redux.29934/

 

Hi. i was just thinking of switching from Luuks version to yours but i have some issues.
Now i like the camber simulation and stuff but i cant get the TempWorkGainRate to function as intended. When i apply like a value of 2 my temps stay basically the same in the corner. I looked at the calculation but i cant really find a point where it takes G forces in to account as stated in the docs of the value itself

Further i noticed that tyre temps above WorkingTemp dont make a big difference. You would expect a tyre with 600c to slip around like on ice since that temp is the melting point of race tyres.

My biggest issue is just that adjusting the values most of the time doesnt change much or if changed it changes stuff it shouldnt even effect. Like the WorkGainTemp as stated above Or the SlipGain value beeing the same as WorkGainTemp. Not sure if i am just stupid in changing values but doubling the worktempgain should double the heat input which it absolutly doesnt. I can go on spa with a WorkGainTemp of 3 and be just fine for multiple laps (i drove 5 in F4). But if i do a small burnout on start it will completly disintegrate my temps even tho the SlipTempGain value is at default values.

 

Hi Unshown, first off thanks for bringing this to my attention. I don't have the time to test as thoroughly as I'd like while having some semblance of development speed so it's great feedback.
This part of the vlua was something I'd have liked to have a better solution for before releasing 0.16 as currently temp gain from tyre work is proportional to vertical load and the square inverse of the amount of slip, which should mean more load at less slip = more work done. This however is a poor approximation for what it's trying to do. I would like to figure out a way to derive work done by the tyre from G forces but the best value of Gs I can find is average Gs for the vehicle which might be better or not, but will likely pose problems during low speed cornering when the front tyres are doing the majority of the work towards generating Gs, compared to the rears.

It's correct that tyre temps far above working temp don't make as big of a difference as it should, I had limited the grip loss from this early in the temp rework because some modded vehicles with extreme performance would cause the tyres to heat up far beyond what is reasonable (due to insane brake temps) and this change keeps them driveable. I haven't had the time to test this again at the end of the rework without putting the update off longer and getting it out for others to test as well.

In the future, extremely increased temps will cause sufficient loss of grip once I confirm that at least most reasonable high performance vehicles are drivable. And as far as getting a better result for temp gain from work done, more research is needed to identify the best parameters to use to get horizontal load of a tyre, so if you find useful variables which the game exposes, do let me know

 

Fyi Unshown I'm pursuing using vehicle G sensors and it seems promising

 

do you think you'd be able to make tire PSI affect tire thermal and wear gain, as for now in the Vanilla game all tire PSI is used for is to balance front and rear grip when people don't know how to tune suspension, which is not what you would ever wanna do IRL

 

Yes definitely! Once thermals get to a reasonable stage this is something I plan to look into as it should be fairly straightforward to implement. Though on a related note, thermals affecting tyre pressure is another beast so I'll probably do that part in a later update

 

About the 0.17 update:
"Wear rate lowered significantly" But why?
It was the moment you messed up the point of tire wear completely. I don't know what feedback made you to fix what was perfect but wear rate in 0.16 was very realistic, now it's non existent.
In real life you can destroy a regular street tire in a few minutes by doing burnouts and drifts. 0.16 was perfect, didn't have to fix it.

 

During testing I was getting 1 lap around barcelona in a race 200bx and the tyres dropped to 93% so I decided to decrease the wear rate, thanks for pointing this out but how have you gotten this result?

As well as this I had gotten feedback about city driving wearing tyres too much. I would guess that the amount of wear from relaxed use and from extreme use need adjusting.

It may have been perfect in your situation but, at this point, it's far from perfect in every situation.

 

"During testing I was getting 1 lap around barcelona in a race 200bx and the tyres dropped to 93%" - It's normal from a racing slick. They are extremely soft, sticks so well because it becomes sticky when exposed to heat, but wears quickly that you don't feel actually because the upper layers are designed for leaving the rubber on the track. It performs well till the last minute. The hotter it is, the better it sticks, but wear rate is increasing. The rubber gets lighter and lighter as it wears down, and it stays consistent in performance until the wear reaches the bottom layer, which is a harder compound that doesn't smear on the road, indicator for change tyres.

Normal street tyres are made from a harder compound to give them a long life (if you don't heat them up and drift them), but they don't handle heat and extreme loads well, which can cause them to lose tread quickly, and because they are not a sticky compound, like slicks, but are much stiffer, after wear plain by a few burnouts, can burst easily from increased pressure - i.e. the wear rate is a percentage of tread wear in this case, not how much of the rubber material is left on it, because its useless after loosing tread.

So, the slick has more layer to wear down, it wears a lot, but keeps its performance consistent till ~20% and become more and more grippy with heat.
The performance of a normal street tyre in track use degrades very quickly, lost grip by heat, and lost traction from the first time, worse and worse, become slippery if it's worn, even its cooled down.

I think the 0.16 version was the one you should come back to fine-tuning, thinking about how different types of tyres behave. It was very close to real life - at least the street tyres.

 

This seems reasonable, thanks. I'll look into doing it in the next update

 

Я езжу с друзьями в Туге, и мы используем спортивные и стандартные шины. Я пытаюсь перейти на этот мод для износа резины, но они не хотят этого делать из-за изначально холодной резины. Как насчет прогрева резины после респауна?

 

BriNgeR,
Это переведено Google, поэтому я надеюсь, что это имеет смысл. Я думал о том, чтобы все шины начинали нагреваться, но для меня было более разумным, чтобы уличные шины начинались с холода и добавляли настройку для подогрева уличных шин. Поскольку настройки еще нет в моде, я могу изменить ее обратно. Добавлю в список

 

I am enjoying the mod a lot! Would having different thermal and wear profiles be better based on the various tire types? As Stylefilter indicated previously, the formula in 0.16 would perfectly match a Soft Racing Tire, which I agree with. I also see your point about city driving and excessive wear regarding a typical Standard Tire. I admit I attempted to understand the information on GitHub, but sadly, I could not understand it fully. So hence, the idea of creating separate wear and thermal profiles based on tire type may be the way to go. I believe the approach to finding a single profile that pleases all users, from racers to casual drivers to rock climbers, may be similar to chasing a dream—just an idea. Thank you again for putting your spare time into this project, and I look forward to your next iteration.

 

Thank you for the kind words and constructive feedback I hadn't seriously considered having separate tyre models as there are so many different tyres in the game and small differences and large differences between them that it seemed to make sense to have one model that does it all but changes based on tyre parameters. The trouble with this is that it's a very big task for one person to test and develop so I was putting it off. Thinking about it now it might be good enough to separate models and tune each separately, for example racing tyres (with soft, medium, and hard), street and sport tyres and offroad tyres (with dirt, gravel/sand and rock crawling).

 

Loving the updates to this mod! Is it possible to add a multiplication variable to the wear calcs so that people can increase or decrease the wear? Obviously without writing a lua script for mp each person would have to do it themselves, but I think that could be a benefit for now while we don't have different tire models, and still a benefit for later for things like excessive wear races where the tires barely last a lap.

 

For me, that lowering on the wear rate was good. Before, I could do EXACTLY 2 laps on Monza, with the tires popping right after the finish line. Now, I can, at least complete one lap on Nordschleife

 

For anyone interested, I've been uploading pre releases to https://disboard.org/server/1141814799471222804 in the thermals-mod-feedback channel. I'll continue doing this and also make a section in the mod page when we get banners sorted
--- Post updated ---
For anyone interested, I've been uploading pre releases to https://disboard.org/server/1141814799471222804 in the thermals-mod-feedback channel. I'll continue doing this and also post it to the mod page when I get

Yes this is something that will come with a setting gui
--- Post updated ---

Thank you, you understand my pain unfortunately most disagree with us so the next update will increase the wear to about 40% of what it was in 0.16. Soon I'll look into refreshing the wear system as it's something I've neglected until now

 

Would you be interested in having someone help you out with testing the mod? I would love to assist in helping you test when you don't have time to do so and give feedback

 

Yes of course I'm most frequently in this discord server in the thermal-mod-feedback channel
https://disboard.org/server/1141814799471222804

 

Sounds good, joined yesterday with the username "ishitwhenifart" if you want to dm me whenever you're interested