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Tire Physics Changes - Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Leeloo, Jun 3, 2021.

  1. Mjamfan22

    Mjamfan22
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    Im a developer for the CRD monster truck mod and i was wondering if there will be support for bigger tires. we run 66x44" tires and the skid marks are still as small as stock d series tires. also the ability to change how tires contact the ground would be awesome, maybe being able to bevel the jbeam. It would be easier to show you guys rather than try to explain it. But that would be awesome to see in a tire update.
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
  2. Andrew James

    Andrew James
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    I'm eager to know any updates this has on drifting anytime. I am excited
     
  3. SKB

    SKB
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    Slight bump.

    Tire temps and wear when?

    Anyway, the cars handle pretty well, and as far as I've heard from people who have wheels, seems like the ffb has been improved a whole lot too!
    :)
     
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  4. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    Vehicle Systems Lead
    BeamNG Team

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    Nothing to share on that front.
     
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  5. Rocker45

    Rocker45
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    The new tweaks to tires physics in this update is great, cars now maintain grip a lot better at the limit. Goodjob beam devs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  6. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Did they change anything? I didn't see anything in the patch notes.
     
  7. Rocker45

    Rocker45
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    I didn't notice anything tires related in the patch note, but the cars feel way more agile this update.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  8. Agent_Y

    Agent_Y
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    Could be FFB differences maybe
     
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  9. a plane guy

    a plane guy
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    This is unrelated to topic but congrats on 5000 messages!
     
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  10. Agent_Y

    Agent_Y
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    Oh I didn't notice that lol thanks
     
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  11. kyleatkinson1994

    kyleatkinson1994
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    FFB changes greatly improved the overall feel of most tires. There's still a bit to be desired in terms of feeling when a tire is 'gripped up' vs 'on the edge' but it's at least a noticeable difference now instead of just relying on tire audio feedback.

    - Edit -

    This feedback mostly applies to sport/race tires on paved surfaces. The offroad/rally tires still feel a bit numb to me, but, that's probably me being picky. It's just tough to feel the difference in grip levels between surfaces with offroad/rally tires IMO, the transitions are almost seamless. Even a gravel tire will have a good level of grip on a paved surface, however, it feels very vague in terms of having/losing grip.
     
    #91 kyleatkinson1994, Dec 8, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2021
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Brother_Dave

    Brother_Dave
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    I really second that last post about the improved FFB. Ive even recorded a vid of the Hill Climb old Pessima on Nurburgring JUST to show how much grip there is now and how good the FFB is becoming. Also randomly commented about it on various sim racers YT channels because BeamNG>All

    One big thing that impacts the 'gripped up' feeling which is oh so important for everything FFB is the Side Accel Forces, ive increased that to 250% (running it at 150% right now) in the inputmap file. That makes it oh so much tighter and i can tell much better what the rest of the car is doing, not only the front wheels. Now, 250% might have downsides that i dont see or feel but this is what im using now:


    Logitech G920

    Strength 750-1000
    Smoothing 0 (YES zero, thanks to the side accel forces centering the wheel when standing still i assume)
    Side Accel Forces 100-250% depending on my taste for a particular vehicle. Running 150% at the moment but will probably return to 250%
    Reduce while parked OFF

    Power steering enabled on all vehicles (it really works great with these settings)

    Throttle pedal curve value 3
    Brake pedal curve value 2.7
    Clutch pedal curve value 0.3


    Side Accel Forces in the inputmap file shown below.

    EDIT: Actually tried Side Accel Forces at 350% (RIP arms) and i can feel the rumble strips much much better.

    EDIT 2: I made a mod of it, youll find it under the Mods and Skins subforum :rolleyes:
     

    Attached Files:

    • kanelbulle.png
    #92 Brother_Dave, Dec 20, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
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  13. Sandraker

    Sandraker
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    So I've been driving a few of the default race/track versions of a couple of cars on Hirochi Raceway, with substantially (~40%) reduced tire pressures, and no further setup changes.
    Compared to default pressure, they're seconds faster around the short circuit, more forgiving to drive, and closer to how similar cars feel in other sims.

    What exactly is going on here? Do default setups have too much pressure? Is there a bug that makes very low pressures overperform? Bear in mind I have no idea what real equivalents run at.
     
  14. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Road cars are about 30psi. Race cars can change based on track surface/type and weather, but 25-27psi usually.

    Lower pressure will give you more surface area and grip at the cost of friction. In actuality, the center is supposed to start buckling in, but Beam doesn't have a center line of nodes so that doesn't happen. It also causes more tire heat and wear, which Beam also doesn't do.
    Most other sims also give you more grip usually without any disadvantages if you run at minimum psi.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Sandraker

    Sandraker
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    Well, all that means that low pressures are likely overperforming hard. When I did the laps I was running around 17psi (give or take depending on the car), I've driven it as low as 10 with seemingly no negative consequences, but I've yet to do any laps to check if it performs even better. It seems a bit broken.

    Update, tested with the ETK I-series: No improvements in laptimes below 17psi, noticeable problems below 15, bear in mind this was without fiddling with aspects of the setup, so perhaps you could still get more out of extreme low pressures if you adjust the suspension to work with it.
    Still, the 17psi ballpark is crazy low for a car of that size, even for hotlapping
     
    #95 Sandraker, Jan 30, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2022
  16. Mjamfan22

    Mjamfan22
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    A custom tire jbeam would still be nice,

    but the main thing would be to have the skid marks adapter to how wide the tire is.
     
  17. Turbo49>

    Turbo49>
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    Wdym ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  18. Maximum_tyres

    Maximum_tyres
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    Hello simplayers
    a comment i came across on internet regarding beamng tyre,

    "Only a specific kind of tire under specific load can give expected results in tire saturation limits, stiffness, rolling resistance etc. with their kind of node model, and even now it doesn't do all of it close enough. It's not really a true model if it doesn't work if you start changing parameters. It can't replicate a full slip and load curve for the best simulated tires to begin with. It's not a matter of features as much as just how the model functions. They'd need to switch to something like a brush model with disc(s) or flexible carcass. Brush model would not be terribly difficult to implement but would require empiric data for every application and would miss some emergent features, while flexible carcass could preserve emergent features but would need even more empiric data/finite element based generation of parameters, which would be very expensive to develop if you want it to be accurate. To now none of the consumer ones are accurate enough and they've had tens~ of millions of dollars of R&D."

    One thing i want to clear that it not my intention to disrespect the simulator and all involved, i apologies if something offends you about this post.

    I was curious after reading this post so i wanted to know some honest answers from someone who knows about beamng tyre model properly. looking forward for some nerdy detailed responses, thank you for reading.
     
  19. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    It seems kind of out of context. Or just lacking enough context. Not entirely sure what he's talking about, but I would agree that the node based tire model Beam has is kind of inherently flawed and has limitations that even other soft body tire models like Project Cars doesn't have. They keep having issues because the nodes are the only physical part of the tire, the beams between them don't have collision. This means smaller road objects like rocks can be completely ignored by the current model, especially since they don't have a centerline of nodes. The other problem from what I gather from their videos explaining it, as the wheel rotates the nodes essentially slap into the ground and cause a high rolling resistance since it's not acting like a round surface.
     
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  20. Maximum_tyres

    Maximum_tyres
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    oh my bad for lack of context, but u got it anyways. it was about why beamng have trouble with recreating realistic tyre with the model they have. hence he was suggesting that brush model could improve it.
     
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