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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Re:Z_IA, Jun 20, 2020.
I'm talking about Srockzz. He's the one who's awesome.
Your interpretation is completely different from my and others' intentions. Heck, I admit my 4am post does not sit well but let me be clear I'm not so low that I try to appeal a ban that is completely fair. I even agreed the bans were unquestionable in my first post.
You either lack reading comprehension or are terribly stuck up in your own bias to have come to this conclusion of yours.
Also, a lot of users including me, @Srockzz, and @Re:Z_IA were saying there should be more communication.
Its simply based on what I've seen. Namely a bunch of people complaining about moderators banning one user for posting pornography in a mod and a number of others then attacking said moderators over it and claiming lack of communication...
You were giving excuses as to why the content was in the mod saying it was an "honest mistake" (which I think is complete nonsense) but even aside from that its clearly against the rules and it doesn't matter if it was there purposefully or otherwise when it still breaks the rules.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter much what anyone thinks, the moderators make the decision in these cases and can only do so from what they can see in front of them. They can't realistically wait around for Discord messages hours or days later saying it was an accident or trying to explain a way out.
Agree but, the fact any of you are still talking about this on forum is a big fat F
Yeah, but the staff should've made bans such as Alieu's ban more clear in my opinion. This lack of communication thing may not be real, but a lot of people (including the users I just tagged) are saying there's a lack of communication. I will agree that Nadeox1 made it perfectly clear as to why Shiokarai and that other user got banned, but the devs should've made things more clear instead of deleting and censoring everyone like crazy.
Look, I don't think it was a "honest mistake" and it would've violated the forum rules even if it was an honest mistake. However, the devs shouldn't have deleted and censored everything.
Okay, but I think things would've been a lot better if there was more communication. I already know that you're gonna ask me how, btw.
Tbh, I think there's a lot of people that are interested in this topic. I mean, there's 5 pages of this for goodness sake.
In my honest opinion, getting a ban if it's a permanent one is maybe a bit overkill, but it is rather justified, especially seeing the imagery & some of the filenames in the mod files (like 'tailgay.dae'). To me it seems as if who ever made the mod was trying to see how far he/she can push the nasty anime stuff before getting banned & now some people are defending the person for no reason... It was/is a rightfully earned ban, seeing as probably most of the BeamNG fanbase is kids that are 13 or less & that's it; no debating about it required
Whose mod are you referring to, Shio's or Lamzumi's?
C'mon, pointing out "tailgay.dae" is grasping at straws is petty and has nothing to do with Shiokarai's ban in the first place. She was banned for valid reasons, but that was not it. Don't spread misinformation. What next, "CBT" is an inappropriate acronym and the big reason why it was taken down? Should WideFap also be taken down because "hue hue they said fap"?
Probably both, but I can't say for sure.
--- Post updated ---
Oh yeah, and I'm not for mentioning him so much. I'm aware I quoted my own post.
Then what the heck was this whole thing about...? everyone agrees the content was bad and bans were justified, everyone agrees the moderators were more vocal with these few bans than any others in almost the complete history of the game and everyone sensible agrees moderators actions should be to moderate first and make a statement(if necessary) later when there isn't a riot. I have been told the statement nadeox made was 2 hours later than the events that happened, all things considered thats speedy for a small team especially if he had to get approval from synsol, tdev or anyone else.
Yes, but there's a still a few users (who I tagged too many times in this thread and I'm not mentioning them) that said there should be more communication. I can quote one of the comments for you.
This. This is fucking comedy right fuckn here. It will never stop amazing me how much shit goes on here lel. I love how much of a shit storm this turned into.
- Buncha people who dont meet age limit on forum get ban
- Someone uploads a mod with porn and references pedo shit in it
- Gets chance to remove porn and pedo shit references
- Doesn't while mocking the situation
- Tin foil hat wearing users believe this is the work of mods censoring them
All on a forum for a physics sim
Bit late to the party, but I too have a few thoughts:
1) The discord server needs to be slimmed down massively.... Asking for mod support in a discord server is a bit of a disaster as it's just 1 guy being helped at a time... Finding time where this chat will be unoccupied.. and where a dev/someone who can help is online at the same time is a bit of a crazy idea. Forum posts work better (where you can put 1 post up, and people reply to it).
Keep the showcase, and general discussion. All other channels work better on the forum site.
2) An official discord server seems like it's too big of a challenge for the moderation team. Keep on keeping the forum site above water... A community run discord server with staff who 'drop in' and perhaps send a cheeky screenshot of upcoming content... will be a much better idea.
3) Is there anything actually wrong with the forums? Only thing i miss is the additional reacts.. Otherwise everything is fine, it's *reasonably* real-time.. easy to navigate and a clean, fast interface. Much prefer it to discord really. although darkmode beamNG forums would be awesome
As I feared would happen, this thread has deviated greatly from my original post, and is quickly just becoming a further argument over the recent bans, with the same few viewpoints being discussed over and over, often with incorrect or misguided information. So, I usually don't like to do this, but in order to set some facts straight, here is my take on the events, based on detailed information I have collected by contacting several involved parties:
As has been reiterated many times, nobody is arguing about the validity of the initial bans that occurred. However, it is important to note that Shio's ban and Lamzumi's ban were two separate cases. Yes, they had both collaborated a bit with eachother on the mods, but the circumstances surrounding each of their bans are wholly different.
In Lamzumi's case, their mod contained something that was a direct breach of TOS and could have gotten the devs in a lot of trouble for hosting on their site. Yes, this appears to have been an accident, but accidents do not excuse your mod containing rule-breaking files. I'm sure everyone here has accidentally dragged a file into the wrong folder at some point in their lives, but as a mod creator, it is your responsibility to make sure that there are no mistake files in your mod, especially things that break TOS. The contents of the files themselves are also completely irrelevant, despite how focused a lot of arguments have been on debating the severity of lewd anime pictures. The mod could have contained hate messages, or classified Area-51 documents, or a pirated copy of Shrek, and the result would still be the same: a removed mod and banned uploader for breaking TOS. The one critique I'll give about this situation is that it would have been better to have informed the user of the exact reason they were banned from the get-go, but I understand that this could be unfeasible in fast-acting situations.
Now, I find Shio's case to be a bit more nuanced because of the circumstances at which she was banned. Originally, she was given a very reasonable temp ban for her mod containing a certain word that when translated literally, sounds very very bad. As a weeb myself, I get it, people use words like that all the time in anime spheres, and you can forget how bad they sound to outsiders. But, seen as this is a public forum, decisions have to be made for general users and not for a niche fandom. This is why I and Shio herself 100% agree with the actions that took place. After an initial tempban following user reports, Shio was informed of the issue, unbanned, and offered a chance to fix the wording on the mod, which she did and got reapproved.
The controversy around these bans is surrounding Shio's post following her mod reapproval. The post in question was ill-advised considering it directly followed being graced with a generous early unban, but a lot of users (including myself) who have seen this post don't see why it was taken so harshly. Certainty, the parts about Lamzumi's ban were misguided (the post assumed Lamzumi's ban had also been about wording in logos), but that was simply due to a lack of information at the time, as noted earlier. While some of the language was clearly distraught, the post brought up some valid discussion points about clearer communication and guidelines, in a generally calm and informative way. However, this post was quickly deleted and Shio was given a permanent ban. It was several hours later that we learned this was due to Shio's post "showing no understanding for the gravity of their actions."
While I'm not going to argue with this decision, I think this was a very poor way to handle things. By deleting a seemingly innocent post with no immediate explanation, and permabanning the user who posted it, it made it seem to a great many users that the moderators were "censoring" valid criticisms. Sure, an explanation was posted, but that was several hours after the post was deleted. Had the thread merely been locked with a similar explanation as the last post, people would at least have immediately had the official moderator response for why actions were taken. Certainty, rumors will always inevitably start, but they wouldn't gain nearly as much traction if there was any publicly-accessible concrete evidence whatsoever saying otherwise. But when people are completely left in the dark about controversial things, they invent their own narratives built upon anger and incorrect information.
This all goes back to the main topic of communication that I've been talking about for so long. I don't feel like I need to repeat all the details from my previous posts again, but I really do think that a bit more communication would solve a lot of the problems and drama we regularly face on the forums. Truly, I know I've just spend a whole post talking about it, but my concerns were never with the controversy of the recent bans. They are merely a huge example of where I believe a lack of communication has lead to much worse consequences than needed to occur.
Anyways, that's just my thoughts for now. Now if you excuse me, I've got more weeb stuff to attend to...
Quite interested to know what misinformation was talked about?
The fact that someone was debating Shotacon as being a cultural thing would prove that at least a few people are arguing that point but I digress.
Thats not even remotely true, drawn CP got him a permaban, while just a word on a skin got Shio a temp ban. The contents matters greatly to how the punishment is dealt.
Still haven't seen anyone show anything that backs up the fact that it has any other definition apart from a random yt video. As far as I am concerned I have never seen anyone who thinks its a cultural thing in japan kids are still kids and porn is still porn.
This isn't what happened directly, you missed the censoring which was meme worthy and trying to make a joke of a serious situation where Shio was asked to fix it for a 2nd time.
Could be cause it was a serious issue for a game that kids play, let me put it this way a child makes a youtube video with that on the side and gets unwanted attention, is that a childs fault for not knowing weeb pedo culture? No its not.....
No they weren't misguided, they were banned for "nudities and nsfw content" and thats what the ban message said, you don't need more information.
Yes cause thanks to his meme fix and the post bringing up fake communication issues the moderation staff and frankly anyone with common sense would agree that Shio didn't take the situation seriously.
The rumors that started were mostly because of the "The repository" topic which was Shio's doing. Nadeox put out a statement explaining the situation at his soonest convenience.
(screenshot from the "the repository" thread post)
I don't think "lamzumi's pack pushed the limits and was right on the line between nsfw and sfw," is on the line, drawn cp could never be considered on the line..... so yes that's just inventing a narrative.
So yes the only drama was made by Shio and lazumi, under the guise of "lack of communication" which there was more communication that recent history.
Just returning from a short vacation and I'm still catching up on some details regarding this situation but here are a few key points:
There was never an automated ban system in Discord, the admittedly harsh automoderator only applied a 5 min mute for each offense. This has since been lowered to 3 min and the list of words has been revised. Moreover, during the onboarding, even our community moderators didn't have the ability to ban people. Initial permanent bans were issued to users who displayed extremely disruptive behavior, and even then - permanent bans can be appealed after 6 months.
We have a policy for bans/warnings outlined in Discord and Forum rules, but some offenses and conduct are completely unacceptable and will not be tolerated under any circumstances. Offenses that led to this situation are of that type, and in cases like this, a permanent ban may be applied even with no prior warnings. As is the case with Discord - permanent bans on the Forum can be appealed after 6 months. If the ban has been applied for investigation purposes only - it will be lifted and the user in question will receive a notification about the actions taken against them and whether any permanent warning points or bans will be applied as a result of the investigation.
We would like to ask everyone to be reasonable with your expectations. As a general rule, we do not discuss moderation actions in public, and making sure that offensive content and conduct have been removed from our official platform(s) is of the highest priority, which is why we take action first. Despite this general rule, a statement was provided just 2 hours after the event, keeping in mind that this is Friday night and the topic in question is beyond sensitive. And lets not even mention the barrage of personal attacks and threats targeted at our staff. This is also the kind of behavior that will get you permanently banned with no warnings.
To address the issue of transparency, we will revamp how banned users are informed, and what information on those actions is known publicly. If a user has been banned, you will be able to see the duration and forum rule(s) reference for the sanctions in their signature. Note that only temporary bans were issued to those users who were not directly attacking/threatening staff and we welcome constructive feedback on our policies. But it has to be that - constructive.
As everyone had the opportunity to express their views on this, I will now close the thread. If you have any further comments on this - feel free to send them to me via DMs.