I have a love hate relationship with Raceroom. The physics are nice, the game feels good. But the AI... They just love to shunt you all over the place. At first I thought that it was me pulling risky moves that the AI couldn't see me do. But it turns out, they are just total bell ends. I got shunted from behind and off the road on this race. In this session I was pushed off the side of the road by the AI on the corner exit to finish straight (there was contact), and then the game gave me a penalty for leaving the track... Thankfully the AI saved me on this shortly after punting me
I've not had this issue in Assetto Corsa tbh, but the AI in that game is quite a lot more boring than Racerooms, barely anything ever happens in races.
Raceroom AI is kind of train on tracks, just stay out from the tracks. I didn't like that game, sounds wonderful, but that is about it, elbow tactics works with AI in it, as there is no any kind of damage that I could see, despite setting everything as realistic as it did allow. In AC you just overtake everyone on first lap and then keep your lead, they are too scared to overtake. Best AI I have seen is in shooter games, which is kinda ridiculous. Of course if those AI cars would be put to racing, I guess they would fail too.
But playing in the tracks is fun xD I have been really enjoying Raceroom actually. The AI is probably the weakest spot, but at least they are fun to drive with unlike in AC which is super dull. I think I also prefer Raceroom's physics. When it comes to accuracy, I have no idea, but I can really feel what is happening through the FFB, whereas in Assetto Corsa there isn't quite so much FFB feel. But then ofc, Assetto Corsa supports modding and has a much nicer UI. Rfactor 2, is frankly a mess, but the racing and FFB feel pretty good, I don't know why but the game just isn't compelling to me. And anything is better than pCar's xD But hey, Assetto Corsa 2 is supposedly in the works. Which I am pretty hyped to see the outcome of. Equally SimBin are working on GTR3, which could be awesome too.
GTR3 better be good. GTR2 was my first real racing game and I really hope GTR3 is able to keep up with it
For me, I cut my teeth on a variety of games: Richard Burns Rally, Grand Prix Legends, Grand Prix 3, GTR, rFactor, netKar Pro (and NFS Porsche Unleashed, Colin McRae Rally, RoR, Forza 1-4 & Castrol Honda Superbike Racing ). I remember things as being better in some ways back then. But they probably weren't. --- Post updated --- The AI has reached a new level of terrible... That wasn't even remotely a small hit. That was yuge.
Well, most played car games (or games where cars are in big part) and sims are Player Unknowns battlegrounds, GTAV, Euro Truck sim 2, Just Cause 3, American truck sim, , Assetto Corsa, Mafia III, BeamNG. Rfactor 2 is really far behind and Race Room is several pages behind of that. iRacing is really far behind of those, but these are just how much they are played trough steam. I guess there are reasons why it is so. BeamNG is actually 147th most played game on steam, which is quite well considering sold copies during whole liftetime, so copies get probably used bit more than with some other games. AI in Raceroom certainly is more enjoyable for racing that AI in BeamNG, but from some reason I like better to go around the track in BeamNG, Raceroom is quite nice though, but I think that without FFB and with Gamepad, I just don't like how sudden my car is sideways, I'm sure FFB would help. What I found out soon in that was that it is easy to just lean to AI car to go around a turn faster, or use it as a braking cushion. I'm not sure if old times AI was much better, perhaps bit more fake. Like Geoff G. F1 game on Amiga, or Test Drive II, just sprite moving around, maybe AI was simpler to make when they did not need to simulate it. In rFactor AI uses bit different physics than player, bit simpler version. I guess it would be easier to make some kind of ghost car type of AI for current sims, but not sure if that would be much of enjoyment.
Speaking of Test Drive. I have always held the theory that the traffic placer in TDU1 is sentient. It got to the point where I was almost able to predict whether there would be a car over a blind crest etc, but it was never based on traffic density etc, it feels as though it was intentionally placing cars to be fun. So often you would be very safe overtaking on some types of blind crest while in other situations you wouldn't be. I could never wrap my head around how the game did that, or how you would write an algorithm to do what I thought it did. In reality, I have put over 1000 hours into that game and had driven every road on the island etc. So it was probably just me seeing things and patterns where there was nothing, but I swear that game is sentient. Strangely TDU2 doesn't seem to behave the same way. I'm not a huge fan of track racing in BeamNG. Sometimes it feels ok, but if I play back to back with literally any other sim on the market the cars feel like they are woollen and numb. Even the race models seem to wobble around the road. I'm not sure if that is due to the physics or how the game handles inputs though. The FFB in BeamNG is frankly the worst of any modern vehicle simulator that I have tried, it kinda tells you what is going on, but it is quite unpredictable and unreliable. But once again, that may not be the FFB systems fault, perhaps its due to the tyre model, maybe the steering linkages are flexing etc etc. I guess that is the issue with BeamNG, it's so incredibly complex that it is very hard to pin point issues. But of course BeamNG does so much more than other racing sims, and does it in entirely separate ways, which is why it is great. Just to reiterate, I'm not hating on BeamNG, it's great, it's just there is some stuff in there that feels very wrong. However, with a 360 controller BeamNG feels pretty good overall. My only gripe is that the input manager makes correcting oversteer impossible. Since you have to wait too long for the wheel to move from normal lock to opposite lock, by which point the car is already in a tree. Changing settings seems to do nothing to fix this, since even in "direct mode" it still applies the exact same smoothing as every other mode. --- Post updated --- I have just spent a bit of time playing around in BeamNG. I honestly can't tell what it is, but I think it's something to do with input latency between my wheel and the cars wheels turning, combined with the camera swaying and the FFB feeling generally woollen. That's my best guess though, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was wrong And to try and figure that out, I have been narrating myself driving with this contraption strapped to my head recording POV , so I can review footage afterwards and see if what I am saying lines up.
Hmm, I wonder what is wrong with your BeamNG as mine has clear difference between direct and gamepad, direct is really direct, it goes as quick as I move thumb controller. Try these, they work better for me than default race versions: https://www.beamng.com/threads/fufsgfens-go-fast-setups.52739/ FFB is something that is lacking in BeamNG I hear, if you turn it off and compare then to other sims, maybe it shows up in different light. FFB is quite fake always and just slows down the steering when trying to go fast, so it is quite useless thing. Well, of course if sim has this take on slicks where they turn ice when they start to slide, FFB might help to give fake warnings before that happens, but that is topic of such magnitude that better not go there. When setup of car, controller and view are adjusted properly, BeamNG is really good, certainly not perfect, but much more dynamic than some sims, much more real world like. Tires do need improvements though, but if comparing default setups and settings, it can be a lots better than that. Do you get constant 60fps? BeamNG FFB is not working too well if not, I think it was 60-120fps where it works and of course input lag goes huge if you drop below 60fps even for a moment. Vsync increases input lag a bit, but also without it one will get headache. TDU is not a Test Drive, it is blasphemy and disgrace of the name, Test Drive II by Accolade, sometime at late 80's was last good Test Drive and there is only 3 of them, last was III which was not so good, then there are these fake versions starting from TDU, but I guess most don't know those original versions, people had no cell phones back then, certainly no internets either or even computers among most common folks, it was few years later than those happened
I absolutely love TDU, especially with the realistic handling DLC, which made it feel more simulatory than it had any right to be TDU 2 less so. It had quite a few problems (for example window tints affect 1st person view and you can't remove the tinting). Of course cutscenes and acting in both were horrendously sexist and frankly offendingly bad, truly crimes against humanity. I think I am gonna try and upload the two vids I made from it, they might even be useful for the devs from a raw user testing point of view(?). However be warned I sound super bitchy, partly because I am trying to be super quiet to not disturb flatmates, but also because of the subject at hand. I genuinely love BeamNG and it is a tonne of fun, I wouldn't put so many hours into it otherwise. But ofc when you are talking about the negatives of something without talking about the long list of positives it can often come across the wrong way. I would also like to add that they are super rambly, and I am more or less speaking my thoughts. So there are things in there that I say, and then correct myself on later based upon what I am experiencing at that point in time. Equally, I am not an actual racing driver (however much I love to think I am lol), and all of this is by feel rather than data analysis. It's gonna take a bit of time to get them uploaded, since they are like 800mb after compression. If anyone is looking for a general indication of how I drive, this video will give a decent approximation. (and the collision with R.LeipHeim was my fault, I forgot they were there) --- Post updated --- BeamNG To give context. I think those swings that I talk about might be caused by input delay, since they do actually happen in other games, they just don't feel as bad and major. They also don't affect the FFB with so much latency which might be a big part of it. Assetto Corsa For me disabling FFB is a big no. I need it to drive fast, since I need to be able to feel the grip, the weight transfers etc through the wheel. With an xbox 360 controller it's fine, since my driving style is far different from with a wheel. But with a wheel it is 100% necessary. Equally though, some people crank the FFB way too high to the point where it is more difficult to control the car since you are fighting it, I'm not a fan of that.
Problem with FFB is that it is way too slow, it lags a lot behind action, you can make turns to two direction of wheel until FFB kinda wakes up and is usually pushing opposite direction where it should be at that moment. It is limitation in cheap wheels, delay in software certainly is not going to help either, but wheels are not enough fast, they tend to fight you at the limit so when I did drive fast many years ago while I still could be fast (I'm slow and old now), disabling FFB helped a lot. I noticed you are using default cockpit camera, I can't drive with that because it swings around making me sea sick. Do this: Then press 1 to make sure you are in Relative camera view. W,S,A,D moves camera, PageUp/Down adjusts height and numpad 1,3 adjusts FOV, I like it something like this when I drive fast, large FOV gives sensation of speed, but is less accurate when hitting apexes. Disable in game steering wheel to gain bit more speed, might sound funny, but try it, takes bit time to get used to and clock will show truth ;-) Anyway, with that camera setup, you can match BeamNG camera to any other sim, default cockpit camera is horrible, imo. One more thing, keep you fingers straight, use your palms to steer and thumbs to to grab, but other fingers do only shifting or nothing, that is how I got to fastest reactions, so something worth to experiment. Of course my take on FFB is because I did thousands of laps on same car and track to get to the top, to squeeze every hundredth out from my time, you learn car and track so well then that FFB becomes irrelevant. Also what I have heard is that BeamNG FFB is not quite par with others. For gamepad, this is essential to be setup as otherwise it has way too high steering lock (it needs to be adjusted per track and vehicle as idea is to have minimum amount that one can race with): Actually with a wheel too you might have lot more steering lock in BeamNG than in other sims as usually in other sims race cars have reduced steering lock from that 35-40 degrees which BeamNG cars probably have, which affects a lot to how twitchy car feels. Currently my pad is setup like so, but I would like to have one filtering level between Direct and Pad, however I swap between Pad and Direct filtering constantly: Many BeamNG defaults are bit off, at least for my liking, but in BeamNG it is possible to adjust pretty much everything. Then 200BX race suspension has some kind of bug in it, damping knee is 0, which means it uses fast damper settings all the time, turning that up will result it to be 0.5 and when opening tuning menu again it is over the maximum and at 1m/s which is almost 10 times what I would like it to be. Anyway I did some quick math works on that and set up aligment to roughly there, it needs a lot of tuning still, but try setup, it might be better or worse, I know it should be better, but also it would need damping knee mod to work best way. When I started fiddling with settings to get BeamNG more usable as racing sim, I found out that you can improve a LOTS from default settings and setups, it is like night and day difference to me. I kinda feel that there is a lot of untapped potential in BeamNG on that area, also when camera and controller setup is matched closely to other sims, BeamNG is not much worse at all, despite not being dedicated racing simulator. Tires are perhaps bit slippery, especially under power, so there is that, but dynamics of car body and suspension are probably better, powerline is also far better than anything else has. I think greatest issue however is that you have to change a lot of things from defaults and perhaps FFB. Brakes will be updated in coming updates, currently those are bit off too. I'm really curious to hear how you experience it after those adjustments, after all, every individual perceives world tad differently.
I tend to find that my wheel is usually perfectly quick in most games, so I don't think that is an issue. In BeamNG though, I think FFB latency is an issue, since there is a lot that needs to happen before an input moves all of the things and results in an output. Which to me at least makes the FFB feel behind, which I think is why I tend to over correct a lot in BeamNG, since I rely on FFB to tell me what cars are doing in games just as much as sight. I have tried turning it off in the past, it is more controllable and probably better to do in BeamNG, but I get far less enjoyment and fun out of it, so leave it on. I think I will change the camera settings though, I had no idea they existed (thought it was based solely on the jbeam spring/damp settings). Personally I don't mind a higher FOV in racing games, It can certainly help in track racing, but I enjoy being able to see more out of the car, since typically BeamNG isn't my go to choice for driving fast. It's more for rally and cruising. Usually my wheel technique would be way better, I was just cruising around and using my hands to gestate. I should also mention that in the POV video's I wasn't trying to drive optimally all the time, quite often I was trying to twitch the wheel around to see how the game reacts etc. I imagine if you have driven 1000's of laps of the same track it all just becomes muscle memory anyway, 60% lock here, squeeze throttle out there etc. However I more or less never do that. Track racing isn't my primary thing, I much prefer hill climb and rally. Where you are on much narrower and tighter twisty roads and it will often take >10mins to do a lap, and I rarely drive the same cars or tracks repeatedly. So I might do one stint in one car, then do it again in a completely different one. Traditionally I tend to dislike circuit racing because I find it a little dull, but for some reason I find it quite fun in Raceroom, there's just more typically going on. For me the big appeal of AC is that it supports modding and there are lots of tarmac rally stuff for it. One exception to all the above though is classic F1 cars, since they are genuinely beautiful to drive on single lane roads. I also don't do car setups. Setting up cars is fine and all, but I find the fun to be in driving them. From that perspective I really wish more games had options for default config online races/leaderboards. If a car isn't fun to drive out of the box then I usually leave it alone. Otherwise I learn the cars quirks and features and drive to them, so if a car oversteers a bit much, I try to account for that with my driving. When I was much younger I used to fiddle with that stuff and managed to improve times though it, these days it doesn't captivate me so much. (unless I am scratch building a car of course, in which case I kinda have to ) In BeamNG steering lock is set per car within the jbeam (if I remember correctly?), so if a car has 450deg wheel of rotation, my wheel *should* also do that, if the car has 900deg, my wheel should do that too. I know that is how it works in most games and I am pretty sure it's the same in BeamNG, but I could be wrong. I don't know why, but for me changing filtering effects has literally 0 impact on the game at all. If I set my controller to direct, it still take about 1/2 second to get to max lock. The wheel seems to work directly regardless of setting too.
