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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Artistterrymartin, Jun 3, 2021.
I would like to know how much better is a 300 as far as the force feedback.
It definitely is better, as I own a T300 but am coming from a G29, so I have some experience. In case of a switch from the T150 to a T300, I don't think the difference will be that noticable, but the T300 will definitely provide more information to the wheel than the T150 as it has a stronger & better motor.
For a better comparison, @Blijo should be able to provide more info as I know he has access to both wheels
Thanks ! maybe he will reply. Think that G29 is even a better wheel than the 150. When you first got your 300 did you get that feeling, man I wish I had this a long time ago, its incredible. Making a world of difference enhancing the realism in the road details picking up better in addition to better resistance ? It is likely something that would have to be felt to appreciate the differences. As far as the 150 compared to the 300, I guess what I am most curious is the improvement for the money. Was the difference something that one would say is night and day, or even substantially better.
Thanks for responding !
I remember back when I was playing the first project cars there where pretty detailed settings I kept tweaking to get more feedback with clipping. Thought I had read that the 300 had a much higher ceiling before it began to clip with heavy forces. I kept thinking man, if I had a 300 I would not have to fiddle with all these preferences for so long finding the sweet spot.
Hah, yeha, it definitely was a noticable upgrade & it did feel like a "step up" in terms of immersion but I wouldn't really call it a world of difference or any other major comparisons. I did give me a better feel of the road & the car which made me be able to control it better, especially during a slide but if you suck at driving, then not even this will help you much I was a bit worried that the dual-belt system might dampen too much some more detailed FFB cues, like driving over kerbs on a race track, but honestly, I would say that it rather made them feel more real as they're aren't as artificially "sharp" but still provide good amount of information. Other than the steering wheel itself, the pedals have almost the same feel as the ones bundled with the G29; even the brake feels the same yet I see many more people complain about the rubber block in the G29 pedals because it doesn't feel realistic... but no one says that about the T300 ones As much as I love the G29 as it was properly my first wheel, I'd rather go for the T300, especially if you can find a used one in a good shape for more-or-less the same money as the G29. The Logitech wheel does great in games that don't require much precision like BeamNG, Euro/American Truck Sim etc. but if you want to go racing all the time, then the T300 (or TX) is definitely the way to go.
I have both, I believe the T150 uses gears and a belt and the T300 just belts.
This has a few advantages; The T300 is much quieter and smoother. You can also have more detail and less filtering with the T300 which further improves the ffb feel. I agree with what Sitthy said about the rest but I can't compare with the Logitechs.
The wheel is also different, the one on the T300 can be swapped easily for other wheels, including F1 style wheels for ~100-150 euro second hand. This is really nice if you race different classes and like the extra immersion.
As for pedals, there are a few options and they all work on both the T300 and T150 if I'm not mistaken:
1. The stock T150 pedals, cheap plastic, not sturdy and just brake and throttle.
2. The stock T300 pedals, they use different pedals with different springs. The difference between these is noticable but not a selling point
3. The 3PA set. This is a completely different unit, it has a metal base underneath the plastic cover and all pedals are basically the same (apart from springs). This has a clutch pedal which I really like. The brake feel isn't super great but gets the job done. I disassembled all three sets once and this one is the only one with decent build quality, the others are way more toy-like.
4. The TC-LM or something, it should be much better than the 3PA and has the option to run them inverted(pedals hanign) and this would be the "best" option.
I don't have the TH8A shifter, I own a SHH Newt with 8 gears, adjustable springs and a sequential mode and I must say I really like it apart from the looks. It is 3D printed but the layers and design isn't great.
I quickly got the 3pa with the purchase following the 150. Used the rubber stopper for a better brake feel. Thanks for the replies. The shifter was something I looked into too but never got around to getting it. See now they have hand brakes that will work as a external usb that the amazon description lists the 300 to work in conjunction with.
I just pulled up that SHH Newt, July sometime arrival, must be popular. Works with the 300 I take it too....
Less fiddling is defiantly a selling point. I tend to have OCD like needs to constantly tweak the 150 settings to get that balanced feel. Think I spend more time in the settings that playing to be honest.
Maybe its all the 150s, but when mine initializes I am starting to hear strange clicks and unsettling noises. Cheap plastic is what came to mind. It served its purpose being a good price point. But think I outgrew that wheel and want a deeper immersion but did not want to get one if it was not really that much different of course.
Thanks again !
So i use the t 300S and its a bit loud but great.
Now i have the farrari one.
I have 3pa pedals as well, with rubber stopper, but I found it is bit annoying as there is empty movement until pedal touches rubber stop.
So I fixed that by adding small cut of rubber carpet/map thing between pedal and rubber cone, so that there is no loose play at all. This also has added some more progression to brake feel so that at first it is bit softer and then ramps up in required force.
To me it has been huge improvement over any other brake setup that I have used, which is mainly logitech and 3pa without rubber thing, but I can actually control brake in Beamng now and it is somewhat predictable even.
Sadly way calibration is made in 3pa pedals if I press brake pedal too hard once, then calibration is changed and have to keep slamming the pedal until I disconnect wheel.
Totally agree T150 requiring a ton of adjusting, FFB range is so narrow with it that to get anything useful out of it, one needs to adjust a lot.
Also T150 wheel is annoying as it has loose movement because of gears and wheel does not turn smoothly, but in notches especially noticeable with low forces around the center area, like how I play Truck sims for example, so truck is veering to left on lane, I correct, but because of these notches truck now veers to right instead, can't turn just enough little to get correct amount of change in steering angle.
T300, I don't know if it has the similar, but definitely won't by a wheel with similar notched steering again, I'm not sure if that comes from the belt or the motor, or if even from the gears, but that is annoying part of T150.
Someplace I have read that Thrustmaster wheels would all have that notchy feel, but I must say, I haven't really seen very convincing evidence of such.
Also T150 FFB is kinda slow and I have to run it at very low update frequency too as forces goes kinda useless at higher update frequency, so if I turn really quickly left and right, it takes a little while from wheel to realize the change, that happens even at above 100fps.
Still I might upgrade pedals first to something where calibration stays the same and that has pressure kinda of feel to brake as I have grown to like that.
Thanks ! , I like that idea of adding the extra layer to the brake to address that free play zone. I have not done much else with the peddles but did try to make the clutch seem more like it had some resistance. Just took a spring from a mattress and bent it in a odd shape. Wedging one end into the back of the clutch and the other somewhere to catch onto in the base part. It did not give the effect I was trying for. Some resistance at first followed by a half way release of pressure. I kept thinking what would work that would cause some resistance and then give. Of the real cars I owned that had clutches, none seem like the 3tpa peddle clutch.
I never decided to get a t300. I asked myself how often do I actually use my wheel I have now. But having a better wheel I would be more inclined to race more with it. I know the t150, the plastic screw thing on the bottom broke after just a few weeks. Have to use plyers to turn the ball part of the thing the plastic flip piece broke off.
What I have gathered is that clutch pedals tend to be quite far off from real clutch pedals with most or almost with all readily available pedal setups.
Expensive setups might do better job with clutch, but as real clutch has so different behavior from simple progressive spring and on most simracing games clutch is not so important, I guess it is often regarded as enough good and not developed to quite best possible feel that would be technologically be possible.
Then again I have to rely on what I have read from subject and what I have found as those expensive setups tend to be bit much for my needs.
I have had thoughts about getting some junk yard parts and getting actually fluid operated brake and clutch setup build, but my driving seems to get less and less, even time I can sit at front of screen is getting quite short, before I need a brake for numerous of pains, so perhaps I leave such projects for younger people already
For clutch, to get more sharp behavior instead of long range of activation, I did play with ingame settings and did kind of like of what I found:
I don't know if it works with modifications that you have done to your clutch pedal though, but I would think that it is not enough to alter spring of clutch, motion vs action would also need to be modified to get best of it.
If I find decently priced Arduino from EU, one mod to try is to make Arduino to be pedal controller and use 3PA pedals trough it.
Here is one video showing how to do it:
I think that could be upgrade for everyone using T3PA pedals.
Another improvement I have been thinking is for brake, with rubber mod resolution of brake is kinda poor, so I would like to get more turns for potentiometer and 3D printing some gears etc. could help there, but haven't really gotten further than just thinking about it, some new parts would need to be manufactured though and potentiometer for brake would need to be moved away from base I believe.
Improving pedals might have more gains than moving to better wheel, but improved pedals with better wheel are of course a win.
I will have to try your settings next time I hook my wheel and peddle up. Thanks for sharing that. As far as what I tried out for making the physical clutch act different than a gradual resistance spring was really nuts. I had these springs taken out of an old mattress. One I twisted and contorted in a way that additional pressure made it harder to compress but at a certain point the twist would flip. I was trying to get it to do that in the range the clutch could compress it to but never figured it out. Thinking the flipping of the twist the other way would feel like a type of give that a clutch has after it engages. It looked like something a meth head may have spent all night on with no success. I also think the people who make peddles feel that its good enough and not focusing on real feel as much as they rather focusing on durability. Maybe to make them feel more real would require parts that could compromise easier or push the price to a point its out of most peoples price range. If I was one with deep pockets I would love to have one of the motion sim chairs. Recently saw some guy beat a record in Dirt 2, assuming he was using a fanatic wheel. But I loved the seat set up. (2) WORLD RECORD | Dirt Rally 2.0 - Ford Escort - ZAGORZE | Highend Simracing Motion Simulator SFX100 - YouTube
That spring setup sounds dangerously interesting!
I created a thread in hopes that people doing mods to their controls could find one place to see what has been done https://www.beamng.com/threads/wheels-and-pedals-mods-thread.81281/
Also perhaps it helps to lessen derailment in this thread