Handling in BeamNG vs. Other Sims

Recently, I've tried to compare and contrast the handling of BeamNG's cars to roughly similar ones in other sims, primarily Assetto Corsa and Richard Burns Rally (with Rallysimsfans of course).
I've come to the conclusion that BeamNG's cars on average are a lot less forgiving, especially RWD cars on tarmac, and the grippier the tires, the more stark the contrast to the other sims. This can't be a good thing, because if you ask real racing drivers, they'll generally say that sims are already more punishing than real cars due to the lack of feel and the false notion that harder = more realistic.
Of course, the poor vanilla setups are one thing (lol camber), which I tried to address to the best of my ability, but the issues really seem tire model related. It feels like BeamNG tires let go extremely abruptly, which can result in very sudden oversteer under power (and snap oversteer when you try to correct it) in a manner I haven't experienced anywhere else.
I also have a hunch that most tires are likely grippier than they should be. I don't know how many g's you should be able to pull on a skinny set of bias plies, but regularly pulling well over 1g in the corners without relying much on banking seems a bit excessive. Perhaps all tires are a tad too grippy on tarmac under normal circumstances, which contributes to how violently they let go?

 

the tires are probably grippier than they're meant to be as a result of thermals not being simulated yet, so their grip is always reflective of the optimal temperature.

 

I haven't played other sims so I can't share any definitive thoughts on what seems "correct" or "more believable", but at the very least, base some ideas from other sources and their beliefs on the topic.

Regarding about how vehicles seem to over-power the tyres more abruptly on tarmac, I think looking at how the throttle input influences an engine's torque response across multiple titles is relevant to this behaviour.

These two videos outline how torque is delivered in most sims and where they may influence how a driver applies throttle partially. (Some sims/vehicles may not even use the same torque map, but most seem to demonstrate such behaviours.) For the first video, if you want to get a quick understanding of the implications of the different throttle behaviours, jump to 17:19. Second video demonstrates the practical differences in sim.




Other sims using a more linear torque map may seem more forgiving to drive on partial throttle, as the torque at medium throttle input is low enough to not upset the car at any RPM range (to the point where it might not accelerate the car forwards) until the driver buries their foot down. In BeamNG, most of the engine's torque is delivered strongly at low-to-medium range RPM, even with relatively minimal throttle input. It is at high RPMs at low throttle is where the torque drops significantly. This is where jumping on the throttle partway at, say, 50% at mid-range RPMs can still significantly disrupt vehicles in BeamNG where Assetto Corsa and RBR can seem more forgiving to power out of corners on throttle.

BeamNG has also given insight on how they map throttle inputs vs the torque curve, which they have actually referenced the two videos above in their post, if you haven't already checked out. https://www.beamng.com/game/news/blog/throttle-torque-curves/

Outside of vehicle tunes, tyres etc., whether you feel one model is more true to how a car would behave on power (again, wouldn't really know myself), the difference in torque map seem to influence a driver's idea on how difficult a car is to handle on the limit.

Which vehicle config and map/track were you driving with the bias plies? I've tested several different vehicle configs that come with bias plies (Barstow, Moonhawk, Bluebuck...) and drove around on Gridmap, and I couldn't achieve anywhere pass 0.8 Gs.

 

The throttle-related stuff definitely might have an effect, as is evident when you try to clutch kick/throttle steer around a tight hairpin in an RWD car. Much harder in BeamNG compared to RBR/AC. On the other hand, it's not entirely related to throttle input, the contrast is also there when you're coasting or flooring it. One of the things that drove me to make this thread was trying RBR's Group B BMW M1 (a ridiculous car by all means), expecting it to be as unmanageable as the rally Bolide variants, and finding it to be a million times easier to use under all circumstances. Notably, you can slide it on tarmac without it trying to kill you.

As for the bias plies, I'm using a different car, specifically a Miramar GTz with 16x4 14x6 wheels, so significantly lighter. It can pull 0.92g on Grid Small Pure, and easily get over 1g (up to about 1.25-1.3) in the "real world" in turns with minor camber/banking.
The bias plies are interesting in general because they're considerably more predictable/forgiving than any radials, more in line with how other sims feel to me (regardless of tire type/ compound). Afaik bias plies are generally more predictable at the limit, but it feels like a bit much.

 

Yeah, at least with the Gravel Rally Bolide, it is much of a handful and its tune less ideal on the road. The Asphalt version felt decent for me, even in a slide with its grip, though still can be overdone if you absolutely throw it and couldn't hurt with some extra setup changes.

You can work for it to be happy with sliding on tarmac with a better tune (softening springs, raising ride height, loosening diff settings, so on), but you still need to be diligent enough on the throttle. Even still, I don't imagine you will find it to be quite as collected as it might be on RBR, whether the difference lies from the tyres or not.

16x4 wheels? I guess I must be missing something, but I haven't ever seen a wheel in that size. All the four-lugged wheels that I've seen come in the Miramar are no smaller than 13x5, and the 16 inch wheels I see only go down to 16x7.

 

Sorry, typo! I meant 14x6 of course. There's only the Autobello wheels because the Miramar's 4-lug only.
Even the Asphalt Bolide feels absurd compared to comparable cars in RBR. I don't think it's realistic, after all even Group B cars needed some degree of driveability, and modded RBR's still considered the most accurate rallying sim.

 

I’ve never messed with RBR, nor have I seen much about it, but it definitely sounds interesting. It’d be cool to see someone remake it and keep a modified/somewhat improved version of the original physics engines but with nicer graphics and newer vehicles. Sounds like it’d be really cool.

 

there are 2021 wrc cars, not sure if they'll ever manage to implement the 2022 hybrid engines though
https://rallysimfans.hu/rbr/cars.php

 

You should definitely give it a shot, it's a blast. While it looks as ancient as it is, the mods have kept the driving up to date.
The game's abandonware, so you can get a single installer that includes both the game and the latest modpack over at https://www.rallysimfans.hu/rbr/index.php

 

Compared to the way cars used to drive in BeamNG several years ago, I would say things are a lot better now, with the right wheel(or contoroller) and vehicle tuning setup cars feel for the most part believeable enough and enjoyable to drive. Recently the only other game I play that could be considered "sim like" for reference would be Gran Turismo 7, I feel both games feel realistic enough and not jarring at all switching between the two.

Of course GT7 and most other sims feature tyre thermals which Beam currently lacks, but hopefully this can be added in future updates for an even more in depth driving experience

 

I have done over 300.000 km of driving in RaceRoom and recently switched to BeamNg just out of curiosity. Both games relay on physics based handling, and if a car is built the right way you can really feel the weight transfer, tire loads etc. in both games. BeamNg of course is better in variability and everyday cars, but the force feedback is not as advanced - or maybe it is just my steering wheel setup. Also the tire temperature model is still missing, but even with simple tire model BeamNg feels great.

 

People keep talking about tyre thermals like it would improve the driving experience in some way. In the current build the tyres should always be in their optimal range. Adding temperatures would add more depth to the simulation, but i don't see how it would make the driving experience better, arguably worse even. But it is possible that the thermals update comes paired with a bigger general tyre model update.

 

IMO, Beam is still quite 'numb' compared to other sims. This is likely because FFB is not calculated on the tire grip as much as it is 'driver' inertia. That's why we struggle so much with not feeling things like understeer or the 'slip vs grip' notion as much as in games like ACC or iRacing.