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Audio Feedback Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Nadeox1, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Wait, the team was headed by Stephen Root!?

    Anyways, no, it was an actual published paper. Maybe a GDC paper or something? Damned if I can find it now though, I always stumble across it randomly. Maybe it was Simon Goodwin? This isn't the one, but he mentions 3d 7.1 and the importance of surround for D2. D2 also apparently had 6 different HRTF models? Must be talking about the BRS plugin because I'm pretty sure that's not in game.
    https://theboar.org/2010/03/interview-simon-goodwin-codemasters/
    Oh, I think this is it. It was Simon Goodwin. Bless his heart, his strive for better surround audio makes me happy. So many games just do it wrong or not at all.
    https://www.codemasters.com/research/3d_sound_for_3d_games.pdf

    That would explain Polyphony's fondness for Hoover engines. I'm not sure how much of Forza is synthesized vs. recorded. I think in that same interview they said they synthesize the sound output when you do engine and exhaust swaps though. They were talking about the new Ford GT, so pretty sure it was Forza 6 since that was the cover car. Again, damned if I can find it.

    Honestly I haven't either, I've just seen videos of people comparing F7 and FH4 to prior titles and the general consensus preferring the older ones. I just tried the demo and thought it was pretty decent, the surround seemed pretty good. They might not be as distinguishable and recognizable as past titles though. People seem to think F6 was the last really good one for audio, which is really just 2 titles.
    I'll say they've lost they're way. Now they're making a 3rd person action RPG. Just a hair different from the norm.
     
  2. Jer

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    Yeah actually, they are, but like the flutter sound I was think of was like in this video ( Just skip to 0:28 )

    Also not to mention, how much you explained made me thinking, "Man! I need to explore with magical game more!! " You have a nice day, man. Keep up the awesome work!!
     
    #602 Jer, Apr 9, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  3. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    BeamNG Team

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    Hey, I have to clear up with a little misconception here
    • Backfire actually refers to combustion going back through the intake, which is a highly destructive thing and not something you want (or that we care about)
    • What you really mean is afterfire, ie combustion occurring somewhere inside the exhaust system
    • The STUTUTU you refer to has nothing to do with either back- or afterfire, it simply is the sound of a rapidly oscillating compressor surge, so it is caused by the lack of a properly sized BOV (or more often, altogether lack of one)
    • Flutter specifically IS the STUTUTU
    • While our game can't simulate the dynamics of the airflow within the intake piping itself (and therefore can't naturally generate flutter noises), you can tell the game if you want to have a BOV or not and what sound to play. There are various sounds for BOVs and sounds for no BOVs.
    Simplified TL;DR:
    BOV - > No flutter aka PSHHH noise
    No BOV: Flutter noise aka STUTUTU
     
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  4. Sithhy™

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    What about the sound that some diesel turbo's make? It sounds more like a "chooooooo" instead of the typical higher pitched sound. Seen somewhere that it happens because of compressor surge (?) when releasing the throttle, but that's about it :(
     
  5. Diamondback

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    Diesel engines do not use throttle valves the way petrol engines do, so they don't end up in the situation that causes flutter with petrol engines in the first place.
    I'm not entirely sure what kind of sound you are referring to, any good video reference?
     
  6. Sithhy™

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    This is possibly the best reference I could find, as for some reason there isn't many on YouTube...


    (1:33)
     
  7. Diamondback

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    All these "off-throttle" sounds you hear there are most likely just the natural sounds of the turbo pushing its air through the engine. With diesel engines there is nothing blocking that airflow, it so you basically hear the same as under load, just... without the combustion.
     
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  8. Bauer33333

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    Not quite sure if this is the right place to ask this, but why the exhaust banging about as loud as the engine if I you use the standard view but when you zoom out you can only hear the cracking but no more engine noises? It sounds pretty weird, especially since I believe this happens to traffic vehicles, too.
    Tested on the Wendover Rally version.
     

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  9. TDK

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    It's part to do with dynamic range, in that IRL exhaust detonations have a lot more energy than an exhaust note but we can't replicate this unless we reduce the volume of everything else and ask the player to turn up their sound system - which they then complain about...

    and as you get further away then we have the dynamic range to be more accurate. If you've had the opportunity to attend a rally you'll have noticed how, again because of the much larger amount of energy, the detonations can be heard over a far larger distance than the exhaust note.
     
  10. JZStudios

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    What about sound modes? Could boost the dynamic range of home theaters and probably headphones while keeping tvs similar. Or having a dynamic range option.
     
  11. Olrosse

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    I would definitely like a dynamic range setting, i usually have my game at like 10% volume anyways to be able to hear the people im in discord chats with, a real setting sounds dangerous though for both ears and speakers haha. Honestly also wouldn't mind an option for other sounds to slightly dampen when there's a loud detonation, not by much just enough for it to feel louder, but i imagine that's pretty subjective

    Some thoughts on the after fire on the rally vivace, maybe it's different in rally but most modern rallycross cars in my spectating experience don't really detonate as much as the vivace does, they more gurgle or crackle on deceleration at similar loudness to the engine, and i feel like the rally vivace has the sound similar to crackles but at the loudness of a bang, which sounds odd at a distance imo, especially with several cars like here

    EDIT:update on this, i had a second look in the current version, which i definitely should have done before posting, and the pops are not near as loud as it was in this video, its way closer to what i would expect it to sound :)



    keep in mind it's a few years since i was at an event now

    now the cars 5 or so years back definitely did have some mad bangs on launch control and throttle lift off, Robin Larson's Audi and Per Eklund's beetle comes to mind, but what I'm missing from those louder ones in beamng is the reverb from the surrounding environment, that would give a really cool sense of loudness
     
    #611 Olrosse, Apr 16, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2021
  12. TDK

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    I'm looking in to a headphone mode as the panning is obviously wrong at the moment. FMOD took the functionality for this OUT which has now made it extremely more difficult to come up with a solution. A dynamic range option would be great, but in reality this should have been planned in at the start. I'm not sure how simply that is to try and crowbar in now...
    --- Post updated ---
    That goes back to the good ol' raytracing system we're.... still waiting for.
     
  13. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Well I certainly can't find it now, but some time ago that indie game Overgrowth added in a feature for dynamic volume... range I guess? I don't remember if certain sounds were given attribute priorities or it was a trigger based on combat.
     
  14. TDK

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    Just not possible I'm afraid. The game, nor the mix have any concept of your vehicle or any other vehicle. As far as we're concerned all vehicles are player/vehicles. Traditionally (other games), we would have a compressor on the exhaust tone mix group side chained by the detonation group, but we can't tell whose (which car) exhaust is whose, from a mix perspective. Add to the fact that you can then change your exhaust etc in this game........ perhaps in the future we can have the concept of vehicle identities which group the various parts of a single in-game vehicle together. Perhaps there is a code solution to this rather than through the audio system.
    --- Post updated ---
    Some games have mix sub groups based on volume, and side chain those against each other, but again - fine with a game where you have the concept of a player identity (be that character, vehicle etc) but we are completely open ended.

    Anyway, headphone mix - yes.... Various dynamic ranges (I did push for a "night" mode) - not something that is going to be considered at the moment.
     
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  15. Confused_Deer43

    Confused_Deer43
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    Coming back to this thread I want to suggest to the readers to try the game with headphones. If you can't play the game at a louder volume or are using basic PC/laptop speakers there is a lot of sounds that go unheard, even if you play at a higher volume.
    When playing normally or at lower volume you tend to mainly hear the engine, tires, and crash sounds. Plug in some headphones and you'll find so many new sounds and effects that builds up a totally different atmosphere and at least for me, I find myself going at a slower pace using headphones to admire the game much more.
     
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  16. JZStudios

    JZStudios
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    Can sounds be tagged with importance? You could have the "player" be the camera viewpoint so it's not tied directly to any vehicle. Then you can have the sound importance tree adjust volume of other sounds based on proximity to the camera "player" position.

    Although I'm also feeling these suggestions are just starting to annoy.
     
  17. TDK

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    Yes, a half decent pair of headphones will out perform something like a Logitech 2.1/5.1 system where there is simply a huge frequency hole between the sub/LFE and the satellite speakers.... however, a decent set of surround speakers will be more immersive than the headphones simply as you have the sound coming from around you. We're going to need to start looking at height too soon, with Dolby Atmos.
    --- Post updated ---
    Nope every vehicle is as important as the other. We are looking at something different for generic AI traffic.

    Effectively the camera is already the player, it isn't tied to any vehicle. We already do things like volume based on distance from camera (which from an audio POV we call "the listener". That's actually how spacialisation works in just about every game out there. The things we can't do is things like "get the afterfires from "your" Sunburst rally car, and compress your Sunburst rally exhaust tone". We can't even do it on the event level because there may be multiple Sunburst rally's in the world.

    I still think we need to have a system which group a single vehicle to make it an individuality, if that makes sense. And these then have their own separate virtual mixes.
     
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  18. Olrosse

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    Siiick! I'm in the middle of building a what i plan on being a 7.2.4 system, currently a Frankenstein 7.1 setup with dayton drivers for centre, car speakers for LR old Samsung speakers for side surround and some tiny Canton rears, all except the sub powered by an marantz sr6012, at least my L R combined with my sub plays pretty flat from 24hz to 20 000hz :) with some help from EQ. But i do like to eq in a house curve as it's called so sub is at an increasing slope from 80hz or so and down

    I definitely notice the deep tones that are around 30hz from the cars and it makes it pretty immersive IMO :)
     
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  19. den_chik

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    As long as there are suggestion day today I suggest to improve the default sound of non-critical impacts to body and components. I guess it should more like light and hard scratches and soft punch type sound to vehicle's body damage and hurting (and some variations of its) and more prononced hard rattle sound of hits to the drivetrain and engine.

    Right now hits sounds are like the same ones for all types of impacts and not IRL vivid.
     
    #619 den_chik, Apr 21, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2021
  20. Acrain7

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    Would it be possible to make it so that when windows are removed from a vehicle (or when the doors and/or roof are off on the hopper), the sound becomes less muffled? (less muffled based on how much is removed; i.e. removing one window will make sounds near the window less muffled, but removing the entire door would reduce muffling even more)?
     
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