Anyone have any luck with MayaLT ?

Discussion in 'Content Creation' started by bob.blunderton, May 16, 2018.

  1. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    I have been unable to grasp blender (beyond cleaning up some models of lots of duplicate entries etc)...

    So I have tried Maya LT. It's 30$ a month, and 245$ a year. I have a sponsor who's willing to pay for it.
    However.

    After learning it, I've managed to only make something that resembles a big huge disaster.

    Has anyone:
    Gotten a way to make proper scene hierarchies like base00>start01>Detail & Colmesh in Maya
    or
    Gotten it to make a model without gobs of redundant entries etc.


    That being said I've manage to have it make a model which I could use in game, but not with native collision. I've managed to clean up the texture entries and such (from the 32 duplicates it made, texture after combining meshes, ugh).

    Thus far, it's not something I can use. Sure I could do 'visible mesh', but that's not going to do.

    I have little choice soon but to drop BeamNG modding altogether as there's just not any facsimile of sanity involved in this, and I'm not interested in the slightest of making maps with 'visible mesh' objects only.

    If the choice is learn Blender or don't bother, well unfortunately unless some sort of miracle happens, I am going to have to finish up what projects I have and otherwise take some time off until this game either:
    Has a way to make half-decent objects within the game itself (it used to, but mesh objects made in the editor don't save with the map since 0.9).
    or Have some sort of tutorials for Maya.
    or Until it matures enough that I can make objects from within this game (optimal, but not realistic).

    It all comes down to a lack of proper tools to do the job if you can't understand Blender.

    I can't really understand Blender beyond moving the camera around, etc. It's made by someone who's rather eccentric or otherwise in-human (who has some sort of broken brain that's alien to me).

    It would be nice if there was a way to do proper hierarchies in Sketchup but does not look like this is the case.

    Just to make it clear, I'd rather jam bamboo under my fingernails with no pain killers, then use or try to use Blender. No, I really, really despise it. Modeling is a dream in Maya, Texturing kinda sucks, but I got used to it, but the models it put out were complete garbage in DAE format, 5x the size they should have been (in KB), and not with the proper hierarchies.

    I hope someone has any advice for it. I converted the FBX from maya with the FBX converter available from the author's site (autodesk FBX converter).

    Also, I say this again, the 4096 object limit IS very limiting. For those who can't make collada objects with collision, you're stuck.
    Roane County is at 3400/4096, So-Cal Interstate is something like 3300/4096 before the 0.9 update wiped out all the bridge pillars etc (a few hundred objects). If I remember correctly, Nevada was like 2500 of 4096 total. That's what stopped Generic City in it's tracks, too.

    Tutorial for adding collision to sketchup objects was an utter failure 100%, for my case. Sure, I could add collision to a static mesh great. I couldn't add it to a forest mesh without the game bugging out the collisions with a 90 degree rotation (see the left of the following shot, the one on the right works only as a static mesh, which is limited to 4096 objects total, that's good for a shoe-box map for DOOM in 1993, not good for 2018).

    Going to have to cancel my up-coming city project for this game in favor of a more mature, more supported game project. This one's just too buggy/too difficult to mod for, as much as I love it, it is too limited and particular.
    --Bob out.
     
    #1 bob.blunderton, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  2. meywue

    meywue
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    There are some things you need to keep in mind when using Maya for BeamNG.drive.

    • Maya doesn't like dashes. So collision-1 becomes collisionFBXASC0451 and Colmesh-1 becomes ColmeshFBXASC0451 when importing any of the BeamNG dae files. Just rename to collision_1 / Colmesh_1 and it should be fine.
    • Game Engines and 3d applications sometimes use different coordinate systems. E.g. in Maya the y-axis (+) is pointing upwards (by default), while in our game engine the z-Axis is pointing upwards. Just make sure setting Axis Conversion->Up Axis to Z when exporting your object.

      Also as you may know, in Blender you always have to "apply Location, Rotation and Scale". In Maya you have to do the same obviously ('Freeze Transformation') although the x-axis rotation of the base needs to be set to -90 so the mesh is pointing in the right direction.
      Video: imo the easiest way to set x-axis to -90 degrees ( freeze transformation, rotate on x-axis by +90 degrees, freeze trasformation, rotate on x-axis by -90 degrees)
    • One unit in Maya = 0.01 units in BeamNG = 1cm
    Following a video where I imported GridMap's gm_cube_1m.dae, changed the names, the visual mesh, the collision mesh and exported it to the documents folder.

    Video - Click to Play - Direct Link


    ...and one where I import the exported mesh...

    Video - Click to Play - Direct Link


    I was using plain Maya 2018 and not Maya LT but that shouldn't be a problem.

    I will attach the Maya scene which you can use as a base.

    Let me know if you have any further problems.

    Edit: I was using the default DAE exporter that comes with Maya 2018 btw
     

    Attached Files:

    #2 meywue, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  3. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Wow you're a lifesaver @meywue . I will let you know how it works out here.
    I made this super awesome (cost-reduced, rather common) bridge kit and couldn't use it. I wanted to choke the computer, but the person who designed the ATX standard computer didn't give them necks, and now I know why.

    I will make sure to read-only the scene file attribute so that I can keep it unmodified.

    Thank-you highly for making time in your day to help me out. I have enough blood pressure issues without the computer making my life miserable :x I will make sure your time is not wasted.

    Will check this out as soon as I don't have a migraine headache (thinking this is Hypertension / blood-pressure related, it's almost daily).

    FYI: Maya LT does not come with DAE EXPORT, you have to save to FBX 2013 format, and use the FBX converter for DAE. The converter is 'Autodesk FBX converter 2013' and is offered as a solution.
    It is a shame we can't use FBX with BeamNG, but also, Autodesk software is not free so many people might not use it.
    --Cheers!
     
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  4. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    Blender can import and export .fbx files were made in Autodesk.
     
  5. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    without touching any of the axis settings, I exported the object as FBX 2013.
    I ran the converter and got the following to plop in the map. Obviously this is only a test.
    Imported as a forest object to be sure collision will work.

    I just wanted to test this to see if it works - as a 'control' before I go and mess with anything - anything!.
    Now, obviously I won't LEAVE the block sitting in the middle of the road there, but just saying, it DOES work as intended. So it IS possible to use stuff from Maya...
    Wish there would have been tutorials on this for the 99.9% of people in this world who can't figure out Blender!

    Oh, and I will make sure to adjust the axis if it is not already adjusted for your scene (or if it's done on export, will read the above dialog again).

    --Thanks!

    Edit: @burilkovdeni - I saw blender could import things - but thank-you. I am trying to stay out of Blender, my blood-pressure has been going through the roof and that program just about puts me in an Ambulance whenever I use it, to put it lightly. I really have to go to the doctor about that, before it kills me.

    Meywue, thanks, having the OUTLINER open on the left there was the help that's needed. I can make a lot of 'simple objects' out of this template now, like curbing/sidewalks & sidewalks with cutouts/ driveway aprons, and the sort.
     
    #5 bob.blunderton, May 17, 2018
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  6. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    NEAT!
    I've managed to get a miniature sideways object, with no collision (or texture, but that was my mistake).
    So when I tried to fix it and make it the proper SIZE, I crash the game, woohoo.

    I used your scene to build it :x This hates me, I am convinced.


    No really, this sums up my modeling experience for BeamNG 100%. This is what I go through *EVERY* time I mod for this game. Ah well, I need to go away from the computer a bit.
    I believe the issue is there's two COLMESH_1 objects, I couldn't get them to 'unite' didn't know how etc. Trying to get things how you want them on the Outliner is a royal pain.
    See what I did wrong, etc, the texture is pulled from the Roane County TN USA mod /art/roads DIR.
    --Cheers!
     

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  7. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    #7 burilkovdeni, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  8. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    What were the mistakes?

    How did you go about creating a blank base00shape (or whatever that's for, is that specific entry required?).
    I appreciate you fixing it, but just let me know how to go about doing this, so I know how to do it myself, and don't have to sit here wondering absolutely *clueless*.

    At this rate, this game is much too fussy. I may in the end have to wait until we're at-least out of Alpha to go ahead with a city map.

    Tried to re-do those changes in the hierarchy to the best of my ability, still crashes. FAIL.
    Don't have enough information.
     
    #8 bob.blunderton, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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  9. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    The extra collmesh_1 was main issue that I cleaned up.

    I did not fix the scale in the x-direction because I was wondering if the width was too tight.
    --- Post updated ---
    20180518210448_1.jpg
    Here is an image of your curb compared to a car. It is the one on top.
     
  10. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Okay, 'extra' colmesh_1, as in, the one immediately within the other colmesh_1?
    I will pull your file and have a look again.
    I couldn't easily remove it without deleting something important. This game crashes pretty easily/ is not very tolerant.

    The piece in question is actually a sidewalk piece, for the city sidewalks, I started with something simple. And it crashed. Will try again though. The face of the visible mesh and the sides of the collision mesh are angled to allow the car to slide over it without killing the tires as easily.
     
  11. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    --- Post updated ---
    392913-3b86b953393872875e4f486561587e75jpg.png
     
  12. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Deleted that collision 1, exported it (without attached texture referencing full paths), still crashed.

    Well look, I appreciate you trying. I just don't get it. But I sure have found out precisely why the only maps with new objects in them, that didn't come with the game, come from the dev team. Because, unless you're on the developer team, IT CANNOT BE DONE. I'm throwing in the towel for the night before I smash the computer.
    I am retiring to the fact that this game cannot be modded for in it's current state, it's *FAR* too fussy.
    FAILED AGAIN. I crashed it no less than 10x~20x. I will make my city map when the game is less fussy.
    Doesn't matter how many video tutorials you make, doesn't matter how hard I try, or how many different lessons I learn, it just will crash, period.

    Why give up?
    If COLLADA is a standard, and it is a STANDARD, a format, defined openly and royalty-free...
    I make said object with collada - using a template provided by Meywue himself (bless his heart).
    I get one of the following results:
    GAME CRASHES TO DESKTOP
    or
    Object comes in sideways (even though I followed all the rules to make sure it comes in properly), and has no collision.

    I have all the time in the world, to put into things that work and show results. This does not.

    When it does show results and do something besides CRASH, I will continue my projects. Thank-you for trying, though.

    Please don't try to fix this one file, honestly, it won't help when I've got hundreds of different objects to make for when this DOES work. Fixing it for me doesn't show me things (but the picture did, and yes I took off the 'collision_1'). I have hundreds of objects to make and no way of getting them into this game COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that COLLADA is *supposed* to be a standard. If the free software that very, very, very few people are able to learn/use productively is the only thing that works with this, I will not be part of this. I just can't learn that program. I will literally die trying before I do - LONG before. It just doesn't look good if I put a standard object in and it goes BOOM and, well, I guess we can say it's a GREAT CRASH SIMULATOR. It crashes so realistically to the desktop I couldn't be asked to do that any better myself!

    I know one person, maybe two that have been able to figure out Blender, OUT OF MANY DOZENS. It's free because NO ONE in their right mind would pay for that maze of menus unless they were clinically insane.

    Thank-you @burilkovdeni for trying, but this is just too much jumping through hoops for more of the same. I have exhausted all of my options at this point unfortunately. I even tried importing it on gridmap, nope, same thing.

    While I was able to import this into the f1 object editor, it is invisible. It did not crash though.
     

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    #12 bob.blunderton, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  13. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    I have found some strange goings on with your .dae file.





    1] I figured out that if the name of the dae does does not match the name you put in for the mesh in maya it will not show up.


    Example:

    mesh name in Maya: "ind_bld_curb_long_a2" .


    Dae name in file: "ind_bld_curb_long_a2" .



    2] It must also be named like this: "ind_bld_curb_long_a2" .


    2a]
    It must include: "ind_bld_" .


    2b] it must include "_a2" .



    P. S. for 2b the number in "_a2" can be any number that is from from 0 to infinity.



    3] If these harsh criteria are not met then your .dae will not work at all , OR it will import and be invisible!!!!!!!!!!




    EDIT: in this test I used the first zip file that you posted.
     
  14. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Snipped^
    Oh for the love of... Who makes this stuff up??? Why does this even HAPPEN?
    The error I got when importing in the forest brush wasn't even remotely close to that in the log, how am I supposed to know.
    Alright I'll try editing the dae file itself or re-exporting it. --Thanks

    EDIT: Searching through the DAE itself (curb_long_derpage.dae) with notepad++ didn't net any results for "ind_bld" at all

    Upon re-reading what you said about 10 time I went back and imported blank shapes into base00shape and start01shape and it didn't crash then. I couldn't figure out what else to name/rename though.

    So yes it imports fine - ONLY AS AN OBJECT. In the forest brush - and only in the forest brush - it appears 90 degrees to the side (and I selected 'UP IS Z' on export).
    So I could build a city but everything will be sideways. Nice 'feature'. Now I know where all the coders fired from Microsoft work. Will try several *MORE* times here on trying to get the file name out of the DAE file (why it's transferring that I am clueless), and figure out why even though I followed Meywue's instructions given via private message, it's still importing sideways, as a forest object (but not normally).

    I think this thing just it hates me.
     
    #14 bob.blunderton, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  15. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    Then your need to rename your mesh in maya and the .dae to "ind_bld_curb_long_a2".
     
  16. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    I have it working as an object now (without bothering with that ind_bld_whatever, that wasn't it at all). I've gotten approximately NO WHERE in the last days with this thing, because it's still importing the collision mesh normal in the forest, but the visible mesh sideways. Look in the bridge photo above. In object mode it comes through fine, why should this be different?

    They're on the same axis rotation in Maya LT. The problem is in the game, it IS bugged. It's not ME. Sure I did have some issue above otherwise that I corrected, but whatever I make, unless it's a perfect square, isn't going to have proper collision.
    --- Post updated ---
    BROKEN GAME

    Forest object on the left, imported as static mesh on the right. Green is collision - This isn't me this time!

    Bob status:
    $@#%!!!!
     

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  17. burilkovdeni

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    your mesh inside of the .dae is rotated at 90 Degrees on the X-axis. . .
     
  18. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    The collision mesh, and the visible mesh, are rotated the same way - 90 degrees, as Meywue showed me how to do so that it comes through proper.
    Then I choose Z is up on export.
    If my rotation is different in the DAE, then why o why (this is what confuses me here the most), does it work *fine* 100% on the object editor, but *not* in the forest brush (it only rotates wrong in the forest brush)?

    I'm so sorry @burilkovdeni ... please accept my apologies, but this I JUST DO NOT understand.

    EDIT: Nope, the 90 degree rotation, on my visible mesh, is not it.
    I went and made 'mangledcurbing.dae' with the rotation on the visible mesh (but not collision mesh) set to 0.
    Hoping it would come out nice this time, at-least in the forest brush. NOPE. Now it's broken in the forest brush *AND* the static mesh.
    This isn't me, the GAME is BROKEN.

    To be completely sure it was not the conversion process, I did a test with blender.
    Importing the FBX scene with it, and then exported to collada (I used a test, where both the rotations on the visible and collision mesh were the same - 90 degrees as required). The SAME result happened.
    So it's not the converter from FBX to DAE.
    It's not the model because if the ROTATIONS are the SAME for the collision mesh *AND* the visible mesh, and the visible mesh breaks inside of BeamNG *BUT ONLY INSIDE THE FOREST BRUSH*. ...
    Yeah.
    This is whacked. This is enough to make someone clinical.

    Took both the rotations off inside the DAE. I get a sideways object BUT collisions match. THE GAME IS BUGGED AND DOES NOT TREAT IN-MODEL COLLISION MESHES AND IN-MODEL VISIBLE MESHES THE SAME (in regards to rotation inside the DAE, and this bug only happens inside the forest brush) !

    Exported with both Y is up and Z is up and ALWAYS get a sideways object.
    *NEED* TO HAVE ROTATION SET AT X = 90 inside Maya.

    BROKEN GAME. BROKEN GAME. BROKEN GAME.

    FOREST OBJECT IMPORT does *NOT* handle 90 degree rotations done inside a modeling program.
    It imports into blender in FBX or DAE just fine.
    It's only in THIS game is there an ISSUE & Only in the FOREST BRUSH.

    @meywue I found the issue. The forest brush is broken when you use x=90 rotation inside Maya.
    These issues do NOT come up inside of the f1 object editor; but that is pointless as it's far too limited with object amounts.

    Still have issues with it rotating it. Changed axis in maya to Z is up on the display... changed rotations on all to X rotation = 0 AND IT STILL IS OFF but only in the forest brush. Lovely. LOVELY.
    I have been trying every conceivable combination, changing but one things at a time. It's either totally broken, or half-works (works in the f1 object editor, but not inside of the forest brush).
     
    #18 bob.blunderton, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
  19. burilkovdeni

    burilkovdeni
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    20180519001211_1.jpg
    I think it might be because when you import an object this box opens up to confirm it, this does not happen to forest objects.
     
  20. bob.blunderton

    bob.blunderton
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    Yes. The box does not come up with forest objects. I am sure it's just down to a simple line of code, or something quite similar. However, this does not get past the fact that there's a serious 'accessability' issue with the game modding department, with the problems in the forest brush.
    It does not even seem to matter if I import it, go through the dialog, and then use the object in the forest brush after, it makes no difference. It's broken broken broken for me, and there isn't a thing I've been able to do yet (literally I've been trying and re-trying this non-stop for almost 4 hours, changing one thing, going back, trying to make a difference, it has helped naught).
    So if I changed everything I could change, and there's no difference, but yet, EXAMPLE A (once the initial CRASH issue was fixed, which I thank you for the OutLiner screenshot), works just fine in Blender. Exporting the FBX scene in blender to Collada (there-fore removing my Autodesk FBX converter from the equation), makes 0 difference.

    Collada, so much for an open standard. If this is a standard, the BeamNG forest brush does *NOT* follow it.

    I managed to get it working once, properly, on X=90 with Z is up. It still loaded the object in SIDEWAYS - useless - had proper collision though - that's a first. It never has proper collision when it's FLAT though.
    Changing the Y axis to 90 rotation, turned it into a giant + sign with collision one way and the visible mesh going the other.
    Still trying. Over and over and over. Over and over and over and over.

    90X rotation & 90Z rotation on the left, just behind on the right is (correct, but laying on it's side) 90X rotation with no other rotation (see picture below). Don't know what I did. But both of these objects have the SAME values for rotation on both visible and collision meshes.
    The editor does NOT handle rotations consistently across sub-meshes inside the forest brush.
    You'd think if I set 90X rotation to 0, it would fix it. So I did, and it ended up wrong again with the collision flat and the visible mesh on it's side.

    Tried everything, it has been determined the game is broken. FAIL. Will NOT continue.
    City project and other mapping projects (aside of one's I am assisting in, and Canyon of Speed update) are on indefinite hold until this is ratified, as there's no way to work around it.
     

    Attached Files:

    • derpwuuut.png
    #20 bob.blunderton, May 19, 2018
    Last edited: May 19, 2018
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