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Civetta Scintilla

Discussion in 'Official Content' started by ferrettank, Jun 14, 2022.

  1. paulnewman

    paulnewman
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    Wow, is it placebo or the car gets better every minor update? The gts corse is sensational on the track!

    I found one minor thing that slightly bugs me.
    Mid engined cars are renowned for their great forward visibility. In scintilla the steering wheel and the scuttle obstruct the view quite a bit. making it harder to sense the speed and hit apexes. On crests you sometimes can’t see the road ahead of you.

    The obvious solution would be to raise a virtual seat. However this way most of the top warning lights get covered by the rim.

    Is it possible to tilt the steering wheel upward a bit? If it was 2 centimeters higher the issue would be nonexistent.
    Or at least could there be a possibility to adjust it ourselves?
     
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  2. Diamondback

    Diamondback
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    We can't make them lighter without running into instability issues :(
     
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  3. McBeamer94

    McBeamer94
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    That's a shame. :(
    But on the other hand, given the fact that instability is a frequent matter in game development and there's no other known way to make them lighter, it still is totally fine. :)
     
    #343 McBeamer94, Aug 9, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2022
  4. delorean835

    delorean835
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    Wait, how exactly?
    I'll admit, I don't know much about how this game works internally, but please explain to me how making the brakes lighter would cause instability issues, because it really doesn't seems like it should.
     
  5. Turbo49>

    Turbo49>
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    While i don't know the cause or how it works basically the more stiff the beams are, the more weight the nodes need to have. At one point you just can't go lower without having the structure too soft or having the structure be unstable.
     
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  6. Agent_Y

    Agent_Y
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    BeamNG Team

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    Fundamental physics. Logically heavier cars require stiffer springs in the suspension, practical stiffness depends as much on the stiffness of the material as on the weight you put on it. So if you make something lighter, it will make the springs it's connected to act stiffer. You know that stiffer structures like steel have faster oscilations (if you ever played with a ruler while bored in school you should know how it works). The game engine runs on 2000hz so it can't simulate any oscilations faster than this. And since everything is technically made of springs in it, that means there is an overall stiffness limit. Practical stiffness, so affected by the weight. If you lower the weight too much, you get an instability because the nodes start oscilating faster than the game can simulate. In that case a solution would be to reduce the stiffness of the beams, and that works in most cases. However in the suspension we can't make this sacrifise for many reasons, for example it is directly connected to tierods which need extremely high stiffness to keep the car driving straight, you need stiff steering angle limiters for geometry, you have to prevent wheel inversion, all kinds of wobbles and excessive forcess, there are of course collisions between various parts of the suspension to consider, and also universal wheels are a thing so you must make sure that each suspension of each car works on every single wheel and tire... And not even gonna metion all of the extra forces added by extending and compressing beams on spawn by the user using the tuning tab to change the suspension geometry with many possible ways, with various possible wheels equipped that can have various weight, size, stiffness... A combination of lots of different factors results in the suspensions of all cars in game being quite a bit heavier than they would irl. The excessive weight is removed from the interior then so the cars have realistic weight overall. And when you have all of this weight, it's already really close to instability, so you can't just make the brakes reduce this weight.
    And all of the above is just one of many reasons why lowering suspension weight is a bad idea. There is also damping which as a similar limit to stiffness, and it's not only used in all of the suspension itself, but also between wheels and body, bumpers etc. in order to eliminate steering wobbles. There are also sway bars and other torsion bars to consider, they add torsion resistance in form of stiffness and a bit of damping too so all of this also needs to fit in the limits. And in case of the Scintilla there is also the super complex adaptive suspension lift mechanism that adds a whole new load of complexity which needs even more weight and stiffness to function correctly... It's already extremely impressive that it works so well considering all of this. It's visibly much closer to instability than the suspensions of other cars, but I don't think you can physically make it any more stable, without making it ridiculously heavy which would ruin the handling.
    If you are still not convinced, try making your own suspension from scratch in game. A geometrically correct one, it will be easiest to recreate an irl suspension with maybe some small changes, like most vanilla cars do. You will see why sacrifising stiffness to have lower weight is a TERRIBLE idea, and just how many different factors you need to consider.
     
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  7. delorean835

    delorean835
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    Alright. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining it.
     
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  8. McBeamer94

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    That's weird actually because I know that the Drift mode disconnects the front axle, at least in all the other cars (Bastion and modern ETKs) it's programmed.
     
  9. BugHelppperrrr

    BugHelppperrrr
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    Drift mode in the Scintilla sends power to the front axle during a drift, but cuts power once you've spun upload_2022-8-11_16-47-53.png upload_2022-8-11_16-48-6.png
     
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  10. trm7

    trm7
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    i was in the RWD version in that clip not the AWD one
     
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  11. McBeamer94

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    Yeah, just read your post more carefully. So the Drift mode is programmed differently for RWD and AWD applications.

    --- Post updated ---

    Gotta check it out for myself.
     
  12. Exchy

    Exchy
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    A minor suggestion, can we have more removable interior parts than we actually have on "race"? I doubt race cars use alcantara everywhere. I do understand that body is probably not using double sided texture and roof simply covered by interior top. But still, would be cool to go a lil more hardcore, cheers
     
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  13. McBeamer94

    McBeamer94
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    Noticed a slight misspelling issue in the Spyder-related body parts, being written with "I" instead of "Y" in the parts selector.

    • Spider Body
    • Spider Rear Glass
    • Spider Left Door and Spider Left Door Glass parts (Lightweight Spider Left, Spider Left and Spider Left Rolled Down)
    • Spider Right Door and Spider Right Door Glass parts (Lightweight Spider Right, Spider Right and Spider Right Rolled Down)
    • Spider Rear Body and Cut Spider Rear Body
    • Spider Tailgate and Cut Spider Tailgate
     
    #353 McBeamer94, Aug 31, 2022
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
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  14. locualo

    locualo
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    i think both ways are valid
     
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  15. McBeamer94

    McBeamer94
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    Both are valid, yes, but since the open top version of the Scintilla is called the "Spyder", then it would be appropriate for the related body parts to be spelled the same way.
     
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  16. JordanW1128

    JordanW1128
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    In the future maybe for a remaster there can be an option where the doors open regularly or like a Lamborghini's
     
  17. Jackets64

    Jackets64
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    My man you talking about a remaster the car ain’t even been in the game for 3 months
     
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  18. McBeamer94

    McBeamer94
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    Exactly. The car is simply too fresh for serious overhauling!
    With that said though, I only think of eight minute details in need of correction and/or inclusion (with the differential situation not being one of them, I looked it up and figured it out).

    1. The GTs and GTx variants not having the 9000rpm Sport ECU while their description boxes clearly say they have "a higher revving engine" than the GT, with the 8600rpm Stock ECU. This can get solved in a future update, whether this is a Major or a Minor one.
    2. When you spawn the GTs/GTs Spyder/GTs Polizia variants, the owl logo on the double-5-spoke Civetta Scintilla wheels doesn't line up in parallel with the ground but it's offset to ~45°. No other BeamNG wheel does this and it too can get solved in a future update.
    3. The Spyder body not featuring a dome light, like the Hardtop body does. It could simply have it installed above the parcel shelf lying behind the seats (just like in the Hardtop body only a bit further back since the rear panel gaps/seams of the removable roof panels get in the way). It certainly must be solved in the remastering of the car because it's a matter of depicted realism. But we have plenty of time until then.
    4. The Rear Reflectors/Marker Lights of the GTs Corse variant being mounted in a way that they are nearly impossible to be seen from the side because they're covered by the protruding vertical carbon fiber end lips of the Performance Rear Bumper. This bumper still has plenty of room behind the rear arches and the end lips don't get in the way from the inside of it, so it definitely can have the rear Reflectors/Marker Lights mounted at the same spot as the normal Rear Bumper with no problem at all (the picture I'll post shows this issue). The remastering of the vehicle has to solve this too.
    5. Some minute misspellings of the Spyder body parts and some misnamings of the front fender parts, related to the sides they're on. These can be solved in a future update.
    6. Plus a "Front Center Undertray Panel" has to be modelled for covering the gap created on the floor and in the front end of the car when the Frunk Liner is absent. Even an air duct in the style of the GTT one in the Bolide could be created as an alternative to the Frunk Liner, for cooling the brakes down and filling in the front end gap.
    7. The Scintilla (and the Bolide, for that matter) could get its own tailored luggage set, specially designed to fit into the Frunk and in the parcel shelf behind the seats. Such an accessory is a very characteristic choice for this kind of car.
    8. The existing Blue, Red and Yellow Brake Caliper options are a first and look amazing but, for more variety, Black, Gold and Silver Brake Caliper options would also be nice for someone looking for a classier and more discreet colour combo/contrast.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Screenshot_2022-09-04-03-26-31-946_comgoogleandroidyoutube.jpg
    #358 McBeamer94, Sep 4, 2022
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
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  19. JordanW1128

    JordanW1128
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    I know how long it's been in the game I'm just saying some ideas for the devs for when they wanna remaster it in 2 or 3 years.
     
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  20. Jackets64

    Jackets64
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    I think the Scintilla was made at a point in the game's life where it probably won't need a remaster for a long time, and you should remember that all of the stuff that has been getting remasters has been in the game for 5-8 years, rather than 2-3. They've had minor updates in the past, but needed upgrading to the modern vehicle creation standards.
     
    • Agree Agree x 9
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