Gavril Grand Marshal

Just make a Discord server so we can whitelist people. Don't want this turning into another Vehicle Discussion thread.

 

Well, I guess I started that new thread:
https://beamng.com/threads/beamng-realistic-community-lore-project.66072

 

I clicked the box. And I liked it.

I just wanted to discuss some possible content the GM could get.

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Stretch Limo: Just imagine it. 12 GM's that have been stretched so big that they are nearly the size of a single '75 Caddy, all racing around the Hirochi figure 8. It would be glorious. Or maybe drive around with them in a taxi game mode if you're crazy like that. Racing them would be far more sensible though.
Wagon: Rather self explanatory. Just a big ugly wagon. Just to add a bit more variety. Maybe it'll be nostalgic for any poor souls that had these as their high school ride.
Hearse: Maybe a little dark, but a classic for demo derbys and banger races. Maybe reserve this one for a Halloween update...

Spoiler: Limo & Wagon Reference Photos

General parts and configs:
-Obviously we need the most important part known to mankind. An engineering marvel that makes everyone on main street stop in their tracks. The sort of visual signal that tells the guy next to you at the stoplight that he has no chance. Simulated wood grain exterior trim.
-Facelift/Luxury Marque: I've seen some people suggesting giving this car a pre-face lift or face lift. I don't really think there's a point in it, but there's no harm in giving this thing some alternate bits and expanding the model years. Different engines (the Gavril 4.5/5.5 already has an early intake on the D-Series and Roamer after all), fascia, maybe door mounted mirrors like the '91-'94 Caprices had. Maybe even a LWB for a luxury marque. There's options here...
-Big block: Yup, I'm going here. I've mentioned in the past that I would love to see some factory unicorns/test beds/concepts/etc... as rare oddities. If you watch Doug Demuro then you know where I'm going with this. In the 1992 Detroit Auto Show, Chevy brought a 500ci V8 Caprice, which later evolved into the '94 Impala SS. Perfectly reasonable for Grandma.

Spoiler: Simulated Wood Grain Exterior Trim Reference Photos

 

I feel that none of this would ever be made into official content for the Grand Marshal, and some of it wouldn't be very realistic for it anyway. You have to remember that the Grand Marshal would be a lower priced, high volume fullsize sedan, closest to the Crown Victoria and Caprice in terms of real life counterparts. This means that a hearse or a limo would be less likely, since those are typically reserved for either the upper-trim rebadges (like the Roadmaster or Grand Marquis) or the full luxury variants on the same frame (Fleetwood or Towncar). While the devs could add a rebadged variant for a LWB and different grille, I highly doubt that they would do that, considering that they would either have to move all of the Grand Marshal's files to the common folder or mess up the look of the vehicle selector by having two names on a vehicle. The only way that I could see that happening is if there was an upscale vehicle built off of the same frame with softer/air suspension, a different engine, and a more conservatively styled body (think Towncar or Fleetwood). A wagon could be a realistic addition with the woodgrain in tandem, but it wouldn't be necessary since not all fullsize body-on-frame cars from that era had a wagon variant. However, a big block in a car built to be a fleet vehicle would make no sense whatsoever, considering how all sedans in its class from the era only had one engine offered or two options that were the same family with different displacement.

However, I do feel like the Grand Marshal needs a prefacelift variant and the current version having newer years. The current version looks way too new for a 1990 model, looking more mid 90s. The small C-pillar windows is the main culprit of making the car look too new, since it goes against the styling trend of large triangular rear windows in that era of fullsize sedans. The angular turn signal shapes also have a similar effect, since they tended to be more round in early 90s sedans. The car is also much safer than it should be, which is really apparent when it's compared against a Crown Victoria of the same era.

Only putting the larger V8 in police and sport models also feels a bit odd, since most models had the larger engines offered in lower trim specs and standard in the luxury versions. Alloy wheels on the basic version sold to the general public is a bit odd too, and the current V8 (A) model should probably have an actual trim designation and Grand Marshal specific hubcaps, giving room for there to be a slightly more expensive model with alloy wheels, two-tone paint, body-colored trim and a choice between the 4.5 and 5.5 (maybe called the XT like in the Roamer), and for the Luxe model to have a 5.5 engine standard.

 

All of those suggestions I took from the Caprice/Impala and Crown Vic/Marqui/Towncar. Not exactly particularly different cars than the GM. I don't see how taking ideas from her IRL counterparts is unrealistic.

-A wagon and woodie aren't necessary, but what is? If we only had what's "necessary" we would have a D15 and gridmap and that's all
-Hearses were made from Caprices. Note the picture of one in my post.
-The most well known limo varient is the TownCar, which is similar to the existing Luxe GM. If you really want something more highend then just slap a chrome grille and call it a Burnside or something
-I don't see why we would need to move anything to a common folder for a LWB. Look at the D-Series. That thing has the Charro, the Kentarch, and 6 frame lengths + HD varients of everything all under one vehicle selection. Bluebuck has 4 bodystyles. Cherrier has 2 entire cars under one "vehicle" in the UI. I think a stretched GM would fit fine.
-The big block, as I mentioned, is straight from the 1992 concept car version of the Caprice. That concept became the Impala SS, which we already have an equivelant to in the GM RS.

 

The Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Towncar were fairly different vehicles in the 90s, and the Crown Vic is what the Grand Marshall is closest to.

What I meant was that the devs tend to only make content for a car that would make it realistic. Recently, they have been going above and beyond with that, but for older vehicles they tend to have only done what was enough for it to be plausible for production.

I stand corrected.

You have to remember that the Grand Marshal is basically a base model fullsize sedan made for fleet sales, and that in the 90s companies made different bodies for different vehicles on the same frame. If you compared a Caprice to a Fleetwood or a 90s Crown Vic to a 90s Towncar, you would notice that their body shapes are completely different despite being built on the same platform, so just slapping a waterfall grille onto a Grand Marshal and calling it a day wouldn't really make sense.

I was referring mainly to the LWB being a different, more luxurious model built under a different subsidiary. You could easily make a LWB variant for a taxi version or something like that, but that wasn't common practice in its class until the early 2000s with the Crown Victoria LWB, and even then it was only offered in fleet sales.

That was a concept car with an engine that was never mass produced. The Roadsport is kinda unrealistic as is anyway with the supercharger, but a big block V8 would be completely insane for a production car in its class at the time.

 

I did mention I'd like to see the big block as a factory experiment or something of the sort, not as a production bit. We already have a Jato bus, ETK homolagation car, Gavril RS supercharging everything they can in the 1990's, a 3 wheeled Kei car that doesn't meet kei car regulations at all, and a post war Italian economy/city car having a base model engine larger than anything the 600/850 got. I think it'd be fine if Gavril gets a concept car and their luxury marque was too lazy to make a new body for the platform. Or just give it a second body, it's not like it would be the first body on frame car in game with multiple options there.

The way I see it, vehicles in game take a lot of recources to make, so it's best to get as much as we can out of what we have. At this point, there's not many vehicles that have most of what the factory would have offered for them. I think the 200BX and D-Series (bar the engine selection) are the only ones close to "finished" in terms of factory content.

 

I just want a wagon.

 

I think someone is working on a new one.

 

A concept car with an engine that isn't mass produced is still worlds away from a homologation-spec car, one-off custom bus with rockets strapped to it, or the historical inaccuracy on three wheels (and the Piccolina's engines are realistic since it's mechanically based more off of the Beetle). The supercharged model is about as much power as we can expect to get out of it in a stock version, and that's only kind of pushing what's realistic since superchargers were kinda being used in production vehicles at the time.

In the 90s, companies weren't rebadging cars quite to that extent yet. Fullsize RWD sedans from the era tended to have 3 models built from the same frame, with one being the fleet model (which the Grand Marshal is) with a basic grille and C-Pillar windows (like the Crown Victoria and Caprice IRL), the next up being a more luxurious model with no C-Pillar windows for a more formal roof line, a waterfall grille, and an optional landau top (think Grand Marquis and Roadmaster), and a top-of-the line model with a completely different body, air suspension, a slightly longer wheelbase, vertical taillights, an optional full vinyl roof, and a heavy helping of chrome (like the Town Car and Fleetwood). Having a more upmarket version of the Grand Marshal would make no sense if it was just a version with a more formal grille, and that would make the vehicle selector feel more crowded for no reason, since the the GM's name would have to be changed to "Gavril Grand Marshal/(Insert luxury marque)". At that point it would just make more sense to create a full luxury variant and make it a completely separate vehicle, since the top-of-the-line models tended to be the only ones that were made into limos.

Also, having the different body in the selector is completely different than the Bluebuck or Burnside's, since it would be considered a completely different car.

The devs haven't made rebadged versions of the same car yet, and I doubt that they would start doing it now. If they did make a more luxurious version of the Grand Marshal and put it under a different subsidiary, it likely wouldn't share too much more than the frame.

 

I really don't see what's the big deal about having a concept car in game when we already have the other oddities I mentioned. Homologation specials and concept cars are both oddities made by factories that aren't intended to be mass produced, barely (if at all) are legal/reasonable for road use, and have minimal production numbers. So why is one okay but not the other?

As for the Piccobello, yes I know it's mechanically a Beetle. But those engines are fairly big, considering it's right in the middle of the Beetle and 850 by weight. I'm not saying it's unrealistic, but it isn't typical of the standard for what it is.

D10 Charro, Kentarch D30. At least a luxury GM would be in the same market and by the same parent company, unlike those.

 

Homologation cars and concept cars are completely different. Homologation cars are produced in low volume runs, but they still are sold to the general public and are considered to be actual versions of said car. Concept cars are built mainly to be either vehicles for testing technology or as a show car, and only single digit amounts of them are typically produced, with none ever being intended to be sold to the public. Concept cars are concepts, and homologation cars are special editions of a vehicle made to qualify for some sort of manufacturing requirement.

The D10 Charro is a stock version of the D-Series that has a shorter wheelbase and has a one-piece body, similar to the Chevrolet K5 Blazer. It's still a D-Series, but the "D10 Charro" designation is similar to the "D15", "D25" or "D35" in terms of it just being the designation for which vehicle it is in the D-Series lineup. The D30 Kentarch is a custom variant of the D10 Charro that was made by a secondary company, Kentarch, and was likely distributed through Gavril dealerships. It's still a Gavril D-Series, but it's a version made by a secondary company, like IRL convertibles or the Ford Bronco Centurion.

A luxury variant of the Grand Marshal (assuming that it would be put under a different marque) is completely different than this. The Charro is still a Gavril D-Series, but a car with a different name sold under a different brand would have to have its own place in the vehicle selector, and if it's too similar to the Grand Marshal then there really isn't a point in doing that. I'm not saying that I wouldn't want another car built off of the Grand Marshal's frame, but it would have to be a very different vehicle if they did.

 

Maybe we will see RV from them in the future? Reminds me of the Toyota Hilux Surf, built with Winnebago. Speaking of which, I hope we can see some more Randolph trailers

 

So if they said it was based on the Cadillac V-16 instead, it could have launched with a sixteen cylinders engine...!

/s

It's not realistic at all because the car chosen as a reference for mechanicals was a good 2 segments above the Piccolina, both in terms of sheer size and market placement. As a result, engines are way larger than anything comparable to the Piccolina in real life - so they are not that implausible, but absolutely not realistic. For the records, the Piccolina is under 3.40m of length (closer to a FIAT 600, but still shorter than a FIAT 850) while the Beetle was almost 4.10m long.

The Beetle back in its day was developed as an affordable people's car, it was designed to be an affordable and versatile family car for the masses, a car (often, the only car in a household) that would suit all kind of transversal needs. The 600 on the other hand was conceived as a diminutive, modern heir to the 500 Topolino (in turn, often described as "a pocket 508 C", whose replacement, the 1100, was the most natural rival of the Beetle) and was aimed at cash-strapped post-war young families. It was a city car for fresh-married couples, it was the second car women learned to drive on. It could never boast the wide array of abilities the Beetle had to have by design, simply because it was never intended to. FIAT had other, larger models in the range that would fit that bill.

They mixed elements from two utterly different vehicles that had nothing in common other than the RR layout. It could still be "mechanically based on the Beetle" while also coming with a more realistic engine size, that's all.

 

While this is also off topic, why has no one ever mentioned the lack of rear drum brakes on the Covet and Pessima's? I can't think of any subcompact econohatch from the time ever coming standard with rear discs, but the Covet is. As for the '89 Pessima, disc brakes should only be on the sport orientated models, but they are not. Finally, the '98 Pessima should only have rear discs on the V6 models, as that was the only time mid-late 90s midsize sedans had rear disc.

 

it's completely reasonable for them to have discs from stock, considering my 1978 saab has rear discs

 

While it's great that your premium Swedish car has them, I am talking about basic economy Japanese cars.

 

it's not very premium lol, but i concur the the basic covet needs rear drums at least

 

A lot of Honda Accord from the 90s, even with 4-cylinder, have disks at the back.

 

Wow, i have never noticed how these two cars have the same looks... same drivetrain... same manifacturer... same engine... Pleas let's get back to talking about the Granny Marshall (No it isn't i typo i call it the Granny Marshall). Also i think that after the recent(ish) overhawl of the GM i think that the devs will focus resourses elsewhere