Tire model potential

I begin to be really interested in the tire model of this game. It seems to be very unique and I feel it could be the major breakthrough that this game provides.

I'll explain what I mean by that. I'm a sim racer and I saw a lot of videos about the tire model of different recent sim games, and this tire model seems to be the central part, and what makes them apart. Its all about the most precise friction curves and heat behaviours and such. And yet most of them still use rigid tire models. Even the most advanced model in this regard, the one from rfactor 2, has tires that only compress a little, and seem to go ¨into the ground¨.

On the other hand, the tires from beamNG deform a lot, like the real deal, and can even pop under pressure. Friction is probably not simulated as well as in racing sims, but it is still taken seriously. Heat is missing though, AFAIK.

If a tire model based on the beamNG pressurewheels was to be developped for a racing sim, it would probably be the best and most realistic one ever.

What do you think ? Am I wrong thinking that racing sims seem to still be a little primitive ? Would a racing sim based on beamnNG's physics engine be possible ? Is this the future of sims ?

BTW, nice work, Goosah

 

The tire model for Live For Speed is pretty good too. They also deform a lot, they can be heated to have better performance and if you use them too much you can wear them and they won't have any grip. However, I can't remember if the tires can actually blow up in that game.

 

With rF2 you have to remember, what you see is not what you get, it does a lot of math and stuff that they don't really bring up as a visual effect, but I don't know if they do have really much of flex even in reality, I guess one should try with low tire pressures and see how it goes.

BeamNG tires are really good though, when things get light, there I guess it's bit less grip than one could except, but maybe that is because lack of heat then?

What I would like to see is tire thread effect on how it goes on mud and softer stuff, street tires on grass are quite bad, while tractor tires are quite good on softer stuff.

Anyway, tires are always some kind of compromise, they can be so complex and gains going to so deep might be not very much, but even with limitless resources, I doubt that they could be simulated perfectly in every situation.

 

Honestly, Beamng's actual DRIVING physics seem to be put to the back in favor of all the crashing that you can do, and while I fully understand why, Beamng isn't marketed as a racing sim, nor are people buying it as a racing sim, and because it is just nearly impossible to drive like a racing sim without a wheel. (I'm lazy and I didn't feel like going over that paragraph and fixing it. ALSO, refrain from wheel/controller/keyboard arguements, please. We've all seen plenty of them.) My point is, if you get a proper car (FR17 hype anyone?) It's actually a VERY good sim, and I don't think there needs to be a separate game with the same physics for it to be a "proper" sim.

/rant

TLR
Beam's physics are already racing sim-ey enough, you just need to actually drive it like one.

 

Tire heat+tire wear is something I have always wanted. This could be useful in drag racing so it would be more realistic.

 

+1

I'm also still holding onto hope that we'll eventually get backfires and flame spitting. It doesn't add much sim-wise, but god it would look good.

 

I guess heat needs some kind of abrasion, which again might be useful for general behavior when there is less weight?

 

What i would like is something along the lines of what @fufsgen has said above. Basically a Tread depth or tyre tread type variable/multiplier in the tyre jbeam. Basically drag slicks would either have a multiplier of 0.1 or Tread Type: "Slick" and stuff like the full on 6 lug offroad tyres would have a multiplier of 1 or Tread Type: "Offroad".
Seeing how there are already so many variables, this shouldn't even be very hard to implement


Edit: i got ninjad by a dev with my idea.

 

BeamNG's tire model in a sim game would not be great.

Most major sims have quite complex tire models that very closely simulate a real tire. BeamNG's tires are simulated at individual points , which are comparably low resolution compared to sims.

 

You devs are the heroes we don't deserve.

Not to mention one of the only dev teams who gives indepth info on wip projects.

 

All of this is really wonderful! Especially the last part about tires working differently depending on terrain. A question is, will this system be extended for wet / snow performance as well? a "treaded" tire that is good in mud is not necessarily better in rain than a slick.

 

rFactor 2 has this, which is where my "quite complex tire model" comes from. It even simulates flat spots on individual pieces of the tire, including in FFB.

 

I don't know, these devs have quite crazy fortune telling machines, whatever community comes up they probably have already working on. That is this incredible game where mostly everything is done like it should for first time, is going to have even more of the stuff implemented like it should, which is really incredible.

 

It's pita to make tires to that game and they still work only at limited situations, but might be something to do with their engine being limited to driving on rails, more or less. When tires lift off or driving on two wheels or getting bit of wrong side shown things start to go really weird.

That is why I like to call it spreadsheet simulator, they compute ton of things behind the scenes, but applying that to believable visual form is not so good if you go beyond excepted way of driving.

There is even rubber buildup on driving line and all sorts of stuff, but everything seems to be working well only if you drive like intended to or that is at least my experience.

Even BeamNG tires might be simpler, I like them lot more, because they indeed work quite well no matter how crazy way I want to drive.

 

Ok, nice detailed information here. That clears up a lot in my mind about these tire model differences. So, BeamNG's model indeed has some potential. As a physicist, i find this detailed approach really interesting.

Nice video. So Rfactor 2's tire model is much more precise than I thought. Still, we don't know if the grip model is directly linked to tire deformation or not, or if it is still partly empirical. If it is simulated by deformation, it is probably a lot of strain on the CPU. Either way, I should check Rfactor 2 more closely. It seems to be the most realistic sim out there.