Since we are "talking." Yes, accelerate would be the thing to do for 98 corrections, however my brain had a vehicle in its short term vision, multiple vehicles hence the pass, so there was zero way it could justify my foot increasing acceleration, all I had was left right left right and once she began there was no stopping her. Did you ever see the viral BMW station wagon forward to reverse 360 flip consumer video? The stunt driver attempts a straight line 360 turn and when bringing it around through the j-turn gets hooked up and flips it, rolls over directly to its back & roof? This conversation reminds me of that in totality, or generally speaking.
Actually, pickup trucks are not made so that the weight of the bed, frame, etc, etc will be enough for the grip you'd expect just because of tires, in-fact, pickup trucks are made specifically to HAVE A LOAD IN THE BED, they aren't really meant to be daily driver type vehicles however because 'murica, that's almost exclusivley what they get used for, that and status symbols at least with american pickup trucks, i have no idea how Europe or the rest of the world designs their pickup trucks
That and its human nature to stamp the brake. If a car understeers, then yeah, proper braking (or let ABS make up for the technique for you) will bring it back in line, but in a fwd car it is entirely counter intuitive that accelerating would fix the problem rather than braking. I know quite a few people have done it and as I said, I've done it. I know someone who had the tail start to go out during a driving lesson and the instructor was the one to hit the brake causing it to complete the spin. Instinct vs the rear end of a fwd car sliding out, the car prevails over instinct. RWD, of course stomping the throttle is going to make things worse.
I'm guessing it's suspension settings. A pickup would have extremely stiff rear suspension to support a heavy load, which also explains their notoriously harsh ride quality. Stiff rear suspension is one of the easiest ways to cause massive oversteer. Loading the bed adds more weight to the rear tires, increasing their grip, hence the old trick of putting sandbags in the bed during the winter.
@6677 Unless you want to go all Formula D and train your drifting skillz. I bet not. I bet my car can lift-off oversteer if really provoked, but fast food trays are a more viable option.
Still already proven they have more on their rear than the so called econoboxes. You dont just design a tyre to require weight. Its either touching the ground with its full 200mm width or whatever, or it isnt. It either has 500kg bearing down on it, or it has 800kg bearing down on it. And if its that much of a problem. Stick a sandbag in the back, ahead of the rear axle though not behind or you have a bit of a seesaw effect acting against your front axle, just ahead of rear axle still shifts mass rearwards without acting against front axle (although it is partly how BMW achieve their 50:50 distribution, they move weight behind the rear axle)
Doesn't matter what you're driving; if you manage to spin out on a public road in any bog-standard vehicle -Prius or Cerbera- while under the speed limit, you're an idiot.
Actually, under the speed limit might be the most likely time for some cars, such as the Cerbera you mentioned, to go around in circles - when you're in a low gear, say, around town, you're getting a lot of torque to the back wheels, possibly enough for a mistimed or miscalculated stab of the throttle to spin the car. This was more apparent back in the 90's, when sports cars were becoming powerful again but tire technology still wasn't advanced enough to deliver high levels of wet and dry performance from the same tire.
Bam, finally someone using their head rather than 3 guys now who cant grasp the simple concept of pickups actually being better off in terms of weight distribution still giving weight distribution as the reason they are worse off. My corsa had no anti roll bar on the rear, understeering at speed was a major problem, it was truly a fwd in that regard. Yes, tail can come out with lift off or braking conditions (actually quite easily), but generally if you pushed it hard into a corner it wanted to understeer naturally. Focus, has anti roll bar at rear, actually one of the best handling upgrades you can do for a fwd car with no anti rollbar at the rear is to add one, understeer will be heavily reduced. Stiffer suspension also tends to have a similar effect to an anti roll bar. However *higher* centre of mass also increases the tendancy to roll. There is where you're increased tendancy for a pickup to spin comes in. Although if you keep spinning your pickup its a sign your driving it way too fast. ACtually like zappy says, no vehicle driven properly should be spinning. However I'll hold my hand up and say I have a total disregard for speed limits. - - - Updated - - - And there you're back to throttle control.
I had my driving instructor stop the brake once. Story goes, we are coming up to a boulevard highway, 45mph zone crossing split 55, 65-70 in reality at the spot mph zone. Imaging four sets of standard United States hanging traffic signals over the crossing lanes and boulevards. Well since it is such a speedy zone the timing of the lights switch the first pair, the near pair first, and the secondary pair second. Since I am looking so high in my field of view, I don't see the first pair has gone yellow/red, second pair still indicates green however is much further down the road. Yellow hits my vision, oh shoot solution, I brake, instructor brakes, however by the feel of my pedal I do not know if his brake did anything or if the noise I remember is just the kick of foot on awkwardly large metal lever in the passenger compartment. ------ scored 14 off on my written test fifteen years ago ------ Mr. Whitucki, that dude was cool. I wonder if he is still driving. He told me to watch my speed on day three when I was passing freeway big rigs at 85mph in some Oldsmobile Intrigue, or Pontiac of the time. The model I cannot directly remember aside my first time behind the wheel of it I redlined it in park... nerves. --- What up Logoster. You live in Cali, gotta see plenty of slick Elky's, Caballero, and dropped trucks that way. The Caballero I drive, not made for any weight in bed, especially now having rustrails for a frame. One hit and it is totaled, it sits at my parents house with my aging parents.. :/
On an actual test, examiner having to hit the brake is automatic fail. Rightfully so really, but some don't give you much chance to brake yourself. Although I passed my test first time so didn't matter much to me. 2 minors of a 15 permissible, about as good as it gets. Did get instructor hitting his brake in a lesson once though. They only get a clutch and a brake, no throttle.
It's probably both. Even if they have more weight on the back, both in terms of quantity and in terms of percentage, than a FWD economy car, they're still significantly front-heavy, and the weight they do have on the back is, as I said, jouncing along on suspension that has almost no "give" whatsoever, meaning imperfect surfaces will cause the truck to snap loose. Even on a smooth, dry surface, though, this setup will cause a severe bias of traction towards the front, with predictable results unless the fronts overload first. I don't know as much about suspension tech as I'd like, so take what I've said with a grain of salt. Stiff suspension hampering traction is something I understand sort of instinctively or dogmatically but can't really explain.
While it was pretty much a Chevelle with a bed, I have a hard time believing they did nothing with the suspension to make it more usable as a truck.
Going over uneven surfaces with overly stiff suspension tends to unsettle the vehicle as the body of the vehicle pitches and rolls in direct response to whichever wheel is on a ridge/in a pothole instead of the damper rebounding into the pothole/bounding from a ridge to keep the body level and the contact patch in... contact with the road surface. This pitching/rolling is responsible for sudden weight transfer that unloads a wheel/wheels significantly, hammering the traction. Pitching and rolling can also be seen in vehicles with soft suspension, but differs since the suspension dampens the movement such that it limits sudden weight transfer and keeps the weight more evenly distributed between the wheels.
Woah woah woah. I never said anything about liftoff oversteer, or the behavior of either vehicle at speed. This isn't a pissing contest for which vehicle is easier to spin around either. Im talking about rear wheel spin on wet pavement, which is much more preventable, and a completely different conversation, than liftoff oversteer. All of this is completely besides the point. I just said that, assuming he's never let the truck spin around on him, redrobin's throttle control skills are fine. You're gonna get some wheelspin eventually if you're driving a pickup truck around in the rain. Letting it come around on you, however, is completely avoidable. And, yes, I've driven multiple fwd vehicles. The only one I've driven enough to really say I've "driven", though, is a Toyota Highlander, which isn't very bad about liftoff oversteer. I have much more experience with rear wheel drive.
I've never had my Ranger's rear end step out unexpectedly and that's with 220ft/lbs and the 5-Speed and 4.10s. I think it has 205/70/R14 on it. Some Asian knock-offs. I've popped the clutch on a rainy day mid-corner and expected a nice little tire spin but the limited-slip locked and turned it into a Tokyo Drift maneuver. The Grand Marq has bald and cracking Michelin tires on it. 225/60/R16. I suspect they are the second set that the car has seen... It's damn near 50/50 weight distribution. Spins the tires really easy on sand/gravel/water. That thing is impossible to get to slide. I've never had it side ways (besides screwing around in the snow...). Hopefully have some 235/45/R17 for the Grand Marq soon. I've never ever had the Focus even think about doing any Oversteering at all.
