Update Speculation thread

Would it be possible to utilize meshes for the streets of Belasco City, rather than terrain, allowing for that section of the heightmap to be less detailed, so that detail could be utilized elsewhere?

I may not be fully understanding, what is the function of a heightmap, and, considering how mountainous Italy is, how is it that WCUSA is so much more detail heavy, in comparison?

 

Think of a heightmap as a description of how high/low a point is (kind of like a map, but that only tells you some thing's height, hence the weird name). Beamng uses it to describe the height of something the game-engine calls "terrain".
The heightmap of WCUSA is 2048x2048 (and that most likely won't change, for both performance and dev time-consumption reasons). In other words- terrain is limited to this exact size. Which means pretty much anything that is not a model and not water, is also limited to this size. A great way to see the difference is to head to a map's edge and see how detail drops. This is since anything outside of the terrain's area is a model, so you're looking at, or driving on, a low-res model ("the background" of the map).
Here's the heightmap's bounds in WCUSA:

They're pretty well recognisable, as roads usually don't continue past them, unless they are model-based. (such as the tunnels, the bridge, and actually also the Utah tunnels, most of grid_small_pure (which is just a flat model), and some mod maps such as the infinite road one which I forgot the name of).

In other words, any part of the map that is not very well contained (tunnels, bridges, etc.) should be inside the terrain, as model-based geometry is much much more resource intensive, and that's the only way you can build outside the terrain. You can't make an entire model-based island that has good-enough quality for people to drive on, while also keeping it well-optimised.

So, WCUSA has to be mostly inside these yellow lines, unless there would be more tunnels or a heightmap size increase.


EDIT:

Actually this might happen, since streets and buildings are rather square, so their models are less resource-intensive than organic shapes such as the island. However, I still doubt it would happen. Where would the city expand to?

 

I will once again reiterate that the biggest thing beamng is Missing right now is a properly big map, it's a sad result of the old engine and years worth of tech debt that we currently can't have maps bigger than 16m2 but if i were the devs id priorities Support for bigger maps over everything else. Even italy got kinda boring after 400 playing it for me.

 

Thank you so much! With that in mind, how does Italy have such a larger size whilst using the same sized heightmap? is it simply stretched to a larger size with the same resolution, leading to a larger but less detailed heightmap?

 

yes thats pretty much it, the only reason WCUSA cant use italys size is due to it needed a much more precise heightmap for some of the hills in the city, this post here explains it pretty good

agreed, although its one of those hurdles that i feel we are going to have to put up with for a long time coming

 

In terms of the southeast I actually think Florida would be a better choice if they make it a coastal map. (if not, then maybe something based off the Atlanta area if they go inland). But the coasts of Florida are very different from California, different layout, construction style etc.


This could also allow for a huge port (imagine industrial site port but not abandoned, with cruise ship terminals and about 10 times bigger) and some surrounding warehouses



I think another southeastern candidate city could be New Orleans, which is more swampy (but also more similar to what industrial site is now).


Plus, New Orleans is home to the abandoned Six Flags park, and something based off this could be fun to drive and crash around

 

Florida would actually be perfect for the next american map, since its terrain is incredibly flat, it would allow it to use 1m/px or even maybe larger since its mostly just flat marsh and low lying coastal, this would mean it could be rendered as a map even larger than italy

 

off-topic but New Orleans deserves representation in Beamng. I think it has a lot more potential, content wise.

 

snowmap

 

wcusa v2 (v2)

• black is belasco city, which has undergone some changes, most notably being enlarged
• orange is the old dockyard , with old brick buildings and a dockyard
• red is belasco city international airpiort, a big and modern airport
• brown is the current island, enlarged. hypothetically, it would have big ol fancy houses and some vineyards, as well as some nice driving roads
• the darker green is christmas valley national park, which is a mix of sequoia and yosemite national parks. named for the redwood trees (and their green leaves), and the stunning valley, with some big mountains
• the lighter yellow is an extension of the current redwood forest, just bigger
• the light green is vista al acantilado, meaning cliff view. it's like big sur, with great scenic driving roads on a cliff on the side of a sea
• dark grey is a small unnamed suburban beach town with an amusement park on a boardwalk
• the light grey is a very small unnamed town used mostly by fishers and surfers
• the dark blue is ocean cove, another small beach town with some notable feature I havent thought of
• the pink is suburbia. big suburb with medium sized houses and not much interesting stuff.
• the maroon is a small desert, with desert stuff. not a baja like desert, just more flat and sandy
• the purple is unnamed attraction area. it has a big fat mall , a baseball stadium, a football (both forms of football apply) stadium, and a big old parking lot. home to the Belasco City Football Club (BCFC) , Belasco Bulldogs (they play american football), and Belasco hill riders (baseball)
• Light blue is an unnamed mountain range. It is very big, with the highest mountain being only slightly shorter than portino peak. if mount whats-its-name in current WCUSA is drifters paradise, this is drifters dream world
• 
  EDIT: forgot to say what dark yellow is but I’m not sure so it’s up to some other person to decide

 

I don't know. I couldn't play the map very well on my then-current PC and would not have noticed if it had changed after release. I would figure it was designed with 0.5m/px in mind, though, as terrain spikes and artifacts would have come through rather early in development and changing the terrain in such a major way post-release would have been fairly intensive, labor-wise.

A heightmap is one of the oldest smoke-and-mirrors techniques for getting good looking terrain cheaply.

A 'traditional' 3d model consists of a series of points, called vertices, that each store a vector for position. Each is connected with edges (which store the vertices they connect) and filled in with triangles (which store the edges they fill, plus normal and other info), to create a model. It's a tried-and-true format, but it gets expensive fast.

A heightmap removes virtually all of that data. By using a black-and-white 2d image representing height values, you can imbue a flat, subdivided, runtime-generated plane with terrain features. Now you only need to store the height value for each vertex, and don't need to store edge or triangle information at all. Provided you accept not being able to create terrain that's vertical or past vertical, or having more detail in some spots than in others, it's probably the best option for large landscapes.

Italy is the more vertical of the two maps, in terms of overall terrain height. However, fairly few roads in Italy are as steeply inclined as Belasco's streets, and even those that are, aren't broken up by intersections that are necessarily flat. I suppose it's more fair to say that Belasco's streets aren't too steep for 1m/px resolution to work, but that the grade changes are too abrupt.

It would be possible to use static meshes for the streets, though it would come with a few caveats. Performance, firstly: static meshes are more expensive, as stated above. It's also a little harder to work with decal roads on static meshes, and they're used extensively for AI paths, road markings, and details like road wear. Lastly, while visual spikes can still occur on terrains, there's a type of collision smoothing applied to them. Static meshes with roughly the same visual fidelity as the terrain we have now would still have rough edged collision.

That said, there are some times the developers have used static meshes for surface-level roads. WCA's and Automation's racetracks use static meshes for the tarmac, and Hirochi does now too, iirc. I think it has something to do with artifacts in the heightmap, which cause extremely subtle, but detrimental, bumps to appear.

 

that poor Asko though, lol. RIP Aussie50

@topic: unironically can't wait for the Group N Covet, even though i've been having lots of fun with that Defender mod lately.

 

wcusa,my version!!.. okay i know its a lot but here it is:
black:main citys two now!
green:mountain range.
red:cliffs.
white: new island with mansions a winerys.
dark gray: new major roads!
light gray: not as major citys but still citys including the hood at bottom right.
dark blue: suburbs with neighborhoods and malls.
orange: forest.
yellow: major airport!
dark yellow little houses by the city.
dark green: golf coarse!!
brown: cliff houses like in LA.
purple: lodge with campsites in the forest.
pink: abandon factory!!
hot pink: football stadium and other stadium for multi purpose.
light green: observatory on the highest mountain!
light blue: open car factory with test track!!
gray: dock with a ferris wheel.
hope you like it!!

 

Id just like to take a moment and remind some of us who have joined this coversation a little late that WCUSA is not getting remastered anytime soon, if at all ever
This is all just purely fun on theoretical revamps it could see YEARS from now
The game currently lacks the technology to do this, so dont expect this anytime soon
And last but not least: dont be sad when the devs dont release a remaster for WCUSA, its big, dense, and likely going to be the most difficult map to remaster, give them patience and time
Thanks

 

Wait: he died? Shame.
I'll search for the Defender mod, hope it's the old one and it has the 3.9 V8 included in the parts selector. I've been making NAS Hoppers with the Gavril 4.5, 5.5 and 6.9 V8s lately and I'm wondering how the Defender will be!
Plus, the Group B Covet is awaited in great enthusiasm! A Group N version would be nice too! A stripped-out and lightly tuned Covet (race suspension/brakes/wheels/tires and Stage-1 engine tuning) with short gearing, suitable for European hillclimbs and also suitable for beginners getting to know racing driving!

Your speculation is really nice! Actually, the airport in my speculation is at the far end of the expressway, even further away from the Redwood Forest. I believe it would be best for the zone you mentioned to be an extension of the Belasco City, with the characteristic staircase streets! But great speculation nonetheless!
--- Post updated ---

Of course, quality needs time and, above all, patience. We're just theoretically looking for ways to improve this map in terms of content because it's commonly known that this map misses a lot of it.

 

i agree its just for fun!! but we can hope haha!!

 

honestly, if WCUSA ever got a remaster any time soon, i think the devs would have to fundamentally change the entire map. everything is designed to fit in the space given, so if the map got bigger, everything would have to change

 

What is going on with these WCUSA V2 posts? Is this somehow confirmed or it's just another wants/hopes posts like always?

 

No idea, it's just completely random speculation with no basis in any fact or evidence.

 

More of a suggestion than speculation,yes