Some thoughts

A little follow up from shio

 

Seems like a pretty weak argument to me. Widefap is obviously a joke name but its the sort of thing that is open to interpretation as an acronym (edit: its a play on the company "WiseFab"). Meanwhile the BNGM TEST-AREA thing is about as controversial as a fashion magazine.

Shotacon on the other hand (what was on the skin mod) has a clear and obvious meaning.

 

@corvette81 @Inertia
Again, this is not to defend Lamzumi, this is not about

Gonna bite the bait, can't sleep.

It's not clear and obvious unless you're a weeb or understand Japanese. If you jump only at the dennotation of it, you don't see the nature of the word in full. It's like understanding "Bro" is strictly for brother and doesn't carry multiple secondary meanings in real conversation.

I'm not gonna deny shotacon is black stuff but in the otaku sphere, the connotation is a lot lighter than the denotation, and is percieved as more of a gray thing. Is it still wrong? Ultimately yes. But it's - pardon the analogies - the likes of saying things like "I'm so depressed," "*vulgar synonym for prostitute*" "*slang for penis*" or "Jesus Christ, dude." Stuff in a literal sense we should not be saying, but casual use has "degraded the severity" of the word/phrase. Shio put in "shotacon" there not to signify the denotation but a reference to the character (a Youtube personality) in her design that said such phrase while joking around with her viewers. May sound brazen to you, but this is what I mean by the word carrying much less weight to those in the culture.

To bring it back, Widefap and the magazine thing seem tame to you, but it may just be because you're used to it. "Wide Masturbation" is a questionable choice for a joke name if you think about it too hard. Frankly I find BNGM TEST-AREA a bit creepy. I also feel uncomfortable about women in bikinis at the begining of a race when playing Cruis'n or Fast and the Furious. Americans holding the national flag as sacred or something seems cult-like. Etc. There are stuff about Western and particularly American culture I still find unappealing or even appalling; though a US resident, I have an Asian upbringing. Japanese cartoons have been a part of my childhood, and somethings I get used to, numbed to. Think about how girl-crazy Brock in Pokeon is. Yeah, a very "normal" gag.

The cultural sphere of Japan has various tropes and oddities itself, and some of those are outlandish to Westerners but not in culture. In my belief, to say "Shotacon has a clear and obvious meaning" without better understanding the term in cultural context is ethnocentric in nature.

In the end, it was too much to put here as a skin, yes, but it in itself was a judgement made by Shio based on her own viewpoint of the term relative to the culture it is from. In doing so, the fault is not necessarily the use of the word itself but poor understanding of the the cultural context it was to be exposed to - the Beam community.

I'm not gonna go dig up all the stuff in the past two pages about Shiokari wrong, wronged, w/e. I just wanted to give my 2 cents in opposition to your opinion. In short, the only thing I wanted to contest with is "shotacon" being obvious and clear and point out that although we all should try to be culturally relativistic, we gravitate towards ethnocentrism.

Edit: Sorry, my writing tends to be verbose.

 

Fully support what your saying, but it kinda feels like your just digging a massive hole for yourself and dragging this out way more than it has been already.

No question whether they should have been banned or not, some silly mistakes were made, and I'm sure we can all agree that nothing has changed at all since before any of this started.

 

All that text and not one example or anything that would indicate shotacon has been used in any other context other than what has been discussed. It’s not cultural it’s just wrong.

 

Weeb garbage, but this is literally the reference:

Apparently pedophilia is still bad in Japan but terms like "shotacon" and "lolicon" get thrown around casually. Personally idk why it's even a thing but it is. As weird and gross as it sounds, such exists. It is indeed wrong, but it also is cultural. Niche, but still an aspect of otaku culture like how rolling coal is deplorable stuff but a niche aspect of American car culture.

@BrynCoops Yes I am digging a grave for myself but I care not really. I just hope nobody is feeling really inflammed by all this still, as it's not my intention to stir up more. Just want to talk about things, but I can see how I'm probably making it worse.

As far as threads like these leaving things all the same as before, it is a shame it seems so. I do hope that 1 experience the wiser makes us all a bit better to react to the next community controversy whatever it may be.

 

>woman with clothes on in videogame - creepy and appalling
>anime child with no clothes on - yeah bro its not creepy its just culture bro dont be racist

very brainiac reasoning

also did you actually just compare rolling coal in a diesel truck to hentai of kids? I actually cannot believe the lengths you are going to defend this

 

Going completely off topic here, but I actually do know someone who did that... Well, it was an armored money transport, not a bank.

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OT: Communication is good. I don't need an essay on why NSFW is bad here, but a simple "this is what happened in our community" would ease tension and minimize "what happened" threads/off topic comments in the community screenshots thread. Even if it isn't "necessary", it would make a lot of people feel more at ease instead of worrying "am I gonna be next for using the word 'idiot'"

 

i know nobody cares what i have to say, but i think the bans were completely justified for the inappropriate content, it just worried me a bit the way the moderators "damage controlled" by deleting posts even just factually explaining the situation and banning some users just for talking about it. i know they have the right to in the ToS but that doesn't mean it's a good way to handle the situation.
like, i know in an ideal world everyone would just accept the fact they got banned for nsfw content and move on, but the fact that a lot of people didnt know the whole story or heard different rumours wasnt helped by the devs deleting even the posts just explaining what happened. like realistically what do you expect to happen? ideally it wouldnt, but you gotta know that if you hand out bans and delete messages left and right rumours are gonna start and people are gonna get angry. im no expect but i feel like if the devs had just made a quick post saying "hey these two people got banned for including nsfw content in their mod, you gotta play by the rules on the repository" that people could link to whenever someone said "wtf happened i heard some people got banned" it would make the whole situation a lot less intense and everyone would probably be over it by now

 

Pretty irrelevant if only the "otaku" meaning applies, the vast majority of people aren't otaku and to them the definition of shotacon is simple, not some "perceived" grey area.

Its only your assumption that it implies masturbation (its not mentioned anywhere) and even then thats about as offensive as a fart joke. This is actually something that could have an alternate meaning or acronym (first thing I thought of is the Peugeot 908 HDi FAP obviously not a bunch of engineers saying "lol lets name it after wanking")

I have no idea why growing up with "japanese cartoons" would relate in anyway to shotacon either. Its not like I've never watched an anime myself.

While I think you're mostly wrong about that too its also worth noting we (and 99% of the forums) arent in japan and arent "otaku". To anyone here they just go off what they know or google search, the results are pretty clear and obvious.

 

god damn where do you people even come from, it's almost like some people are only here to bait/troll.

@VeyronEB Even more hilarious is that there's a actual truck brand from Yugoslavia Serbia called FAP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabrika_automobila_Priboj

So yes, everything depends on context.

 

So, in short: We got a weeb trying to defend his weeb friends by equating child hentai to a joke that's about as harmless as a fart joke.
If you cant see how wrong and degenerate that is, the door is on the left, don't let it hit your ass on the way out.

 

I guess I kinda feel into a rabbit hole after seeing Vinh was banned and have noticed this thread and just want to say a couple of things

First off, props to the mods and devs for putting up with a lot of shit (excuse the French), they put up with, I’m not talking about anyone here or any events but just the random stuff you discover on these rich forums, such as the occasional (okay, not occasional) “when will this be released” rubbish.

Second of all, I’m not as active on this forum as I used to be for that reason, but can understand how difficult it is to manage a forum such as this one, but also that a lot of people need to begin using more common sense when it comes to reading threads.

(rule of thumb, for the sake of everything normal, just read the first post in a thread, it’s the first one you’ll see, it’ll tell you things about the thing you wanna know about, when it’ll happen, why its happening, or, why they don’t know when it’ll happen).

As for what’s happened with this “rude content” (I use those punctuation marks as I’m not exactly sure what it was but can only imagine how crazy it would’ve been), well if you’ve violated the TOS, well bon voyage, only got yourself to blame there I guess (memes are great but don’t be a flop).

There’s also the issue of the discord, I haven’t really looked into any of it, but have heard a few people got randomly banned for what wasn’t really offensive at all, well I guess, if it’s an issue, there’s not much that can be done I guess, discuss with the devs or leave

By the way, I’m not by any means having a go at anyone there, just sometimes (well, a lot), things here, on this forum.....

Can get a little pear shaped.

Anyway, it’s like 1am here, I’ve gotta get to bed, hopefully this is the last time something like this (or as bad as this happens), and that it can be all put behind, and any issues resolved ASAP.

 

edit: I'll keep my spergy rants to myself for now.

 

People still think the moderators have to justify the bans when 99.9% of the time you there is no moderator statement, no public announcement and no response at all.

Why should shio and lazumi get special treatment(I mean nadeox did so cause kids can’t handle justified bans). Y’all got more communication on this case than pretty much ever before but “Reeee It was mishandled and they need to be transparent”. No entitlement showing here folks.


As for one single yt video debunking the fact that the rest of the internet thinks shotacon is pedophilia all I have to say in response is lol.

 

I think you are misreading the entire thing. No one here is defending them, the bans were well deserved and honestly i dont think anyone here is asking for justifications to them getting banned, much less the bans being removed.
The problem is what happened after. These kids instead of accepting what they did was wrong and moving on, they came to the forums, or their friends did, and started making threads, calling out the staff, and creating rumors.

If the staff had come and addressed the situation right after that first thread was made, we wouldn't be talking about it three days later. The rumors would have stopped, and none of this would have happened. But instead they went on and started deleting threads, that got people madder and they started making more threads, then those people got banned, so the friends of those people are mad now too, and claiming they are being censored, then they got banned too, and more threads got deleted.

 

Idk bout that given the discussion about shotacon being “cultural”.

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nadeox did this though, he issued a brief statement on what had occurred trying to not say cp or shotacon directly but still being descriptive. (It took a couple hours but nothing is instant when you are moderating and writing a statement at the same time)

 

I can assure you it was more than a couple of hours, and by the time we got an statement it was too late. Maybe they should have made their statement on the situation first, and then start moderating, Not the other way around. Instead of deleting them, lock them and leave the link to the statement explaining the situation. If that doesn't work THEN start deleting threads. Ideally this isnt necessary as most people that were on the bandwagon of hate are already off it, and those that keep going with it maybe do deserve getting banned. Not the other way around.

I want to make something clear, im not here to insult or make fun of our staff for this situation. I know they were well meaning, and had good intentions, that sadly backfired. I just hope that this entire mess, and all the feedback they have gotten is taken into consideration, so the next time an incident like this happens, they handle it better.

 

Yikes, well guess I can't communicate. I didn't get through, oh well.

I'm not equating terms alluding to pedophalia to fart jokes, but if thats the interpretation that comes out, I can't do anything about it.

I don't have anything to say so I'll leave it at that.

 

Okay yeah, you're right. That's what did it originally, but I meant the lack of communication made the situation worse. I also wrote it at 3 in the morning, btw.

Dude, nobody's praising what happened. Even the creators agreed with the ban. I will agree that the people probably should've waited for the mods to explain themselves, but @Re:Z_IA and @Srockzz made a good point about the lack of communication between users and staff.

Yeah, but haven't you heard people say that there should be more communication between the users and the staff?